In Memoriam: 9/11/01 List Archive

Introduction | 9.11.01 | 9.12.01 | 9.13.01





FROM: Kathy Forer
DATE: Tue 00:31
SUBJ: [wwwac] Silicon Alley Quality of Life

>sweet memories....

Before the Limelight came to be, you couldn't get a cup of coffee 
past 5 pm. It was then the printing district, some photographers too. 
It was bleak. But rugged. Like SoHo but taller and cheaper.

I caromed through today and saw a Boston Terrier. The decayed 
cavities, parking lots that wanted to be parks, were finally being 
filled in and the rag effigy of that guy who swung so long from that 
building across the street that was empty for so long and had once 
been a department store, but earlier than Wanamaker's I'm told, was 
probably gone too.

...long ago and far away








FROM: bill myers
DATE: Tue 00:33
SUBJ: [wwwac] 21" Monitor

22" Lacie  was the best purchase I have made in a few years.  It 
comes with a powered USB hub and an A/B switch built in.  I am using 
it for the mac G-4 and the PC.
It looks huge when they deliver it. It comes on it's own wooden 
pallet and you wonder why a fork-lift didn't roll it in, but sitting 
next to my old Radius 20 the footprint looks smaller.  It is much 
less deep than the radius 20 at least.  I have more desk in front of 
it.
I would also suggest buying it directly from LaCie ($999 - 
www.lacie.com). After being on the waiting list at one retailer I 
called LaCie and they had it to me in 3 days.

bill



>i'm on the market to buy a new 21" monitor - for use at home.
>Anyone have suggestions of best bang for buck? (looking to stay around $1k
>or below).  or anyone know of a site that has recent ratings?
>
>needs to be mac compatible.
>thanks in advance!
>
>k.
>--
>Kim Newman, Art Director - knewman@...
>AGENCY.COM : ATLANTA - http://www.agency.com
>Plaza 400 Office Center
>5887 Glenridge DR, 3rd FLR, 30328
>voice: 404-847-8009 - eFax:  413.294.6120
>aim: izwombat
>_________________________________________________
>What you do speaks so loudly I cannot hear what you say.









FROM: 
DATE: Mon 23:47
SUBJ: [wwwac] Silicon Alley Quality of Life


Yeah, me too. I mean, I wasn't for the drugstore inside, but did enjoy
playing there a number of times -- great stage; even if our band WAS
introduced by Dave Kendall. 

And there was a waitress there too -- name of Carla. A cutie. But nuts. 
And Nigel short english guy and Tony tall blond guy (wrote a book about
REM I think)...

you know, I actually had FRIENDS once. Before the band stopped being
friends that is...

On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Scott Wickham wrote:

> 
> PS I am definetly pro limelight. Had some fun nights
> there. Kick ass music even with drugs fueling oneself.








FROM: Anais Genvieve
DATE: Tue 00:50
SUBJ: [wwwac] Re: OS X

> >I've got an actual OS 9 disk here. want to reinstall 9.1, but OS X has
> >taken over my comptuer completley.  So, does anyoen have a clue where i
> >should start out.  I wouldn't mind reformmating the who disk - as ther is
> >no important info on it.
>
> You could start by booting off your OS 9.1 CD.

I tried that bout 20 times, it doesn't work.  Yes, I kept my finger on the
C key and changed hte start up disk.  somehow OS X is way too smart for
that.  It took about 8 minutes to boot up (400 mhx + 256 RAM).  t booted u
in X and told me that the 9.1/dofware disc wasn't valid -- even though it
was working fine on my desktop computer.  wacky...

anyhow i reformatted the drive, stared from scratch -- it just took me a
long time to figour out how to do that in X.  i think apple should make an
uninstall for X.  it is plain silly not to do so.

cheers,
anais








FROM: Kim Moser
DATE: Tue 01:01
SUBJ: [wwwac] Silicon Alley Quality of Life

Having lived adjacent to not one but TWO bars and a crack 
house--simultaneously--for something like 15 years, I can tell you that the 
bars were the single largest drains on my sanity and well-being (not to 
mention the rest of the neighborhood's "quality of life"). Even when I was 
living there only part-time, the crap I had to put up with from the bars 
(not only from the patrons but also from the owners and employees) was 
enough to drive me--an otherwise calm, rational person--to occasional 
random acts of hit-and-run guerilla tactics (details purposely withheld). 
It made me understand for the first time why sane people can go postal.

If you live on the same block as a bar (and especially if you live next 
door to one), you are guaranteed to suffer, on a regular basis, the front 
door of your building being caked with every type of fluid and semi-solid 
capable of being expelled by the human body (not to mention the mystery 
liquids), as well as finding piles of cigarette butts, beer cans, beer 
bottles, shot glasses, wine glasses, assorted broken glass, crumpled 
newspapers, and the occasional item of clothing. And I haven't even 
mentioned the noise--the music, the drunks, the idiots on their cell phones 
gabbing outside your window, the cars, the horns, etc. Shall I go on?

So, given the choice between a bar/nightclub and an empty building filled 
with rats, I'll take the rats any day, hands down. Rats are quiet, don't 
make nearly as much mess, and best of all it's legal to exterminate them.

Even today, 10+ years later, it gets me so incensed that I have no qualms 
about publicly continuing an off-topic thread.

--K

At 06:01 PM 9/10/01 -0700, Stephen Gilliard <sgilliard@...> wrote:
>Dear neighbors.
>
>
>There will be an important meeting this Thursday of
>Community Board 5 on whether or not to send a
>recommendation to the NY State Liquor Authority
>against the issuance of a new liquor license to the
>Limelight - the notorious dance club and drug
>supermarket on 6th avenue at 20th street. The meeting
>will start at 6pm in Building A of FIT (probably on
>the 8th floor, but there should be notices in the
>lobby on 27th Street between 7th & 8th Ave.)
>
>
>---Not being a neighbor, this hardly affects me,
>professionally or personally, but since it's on the
>list, I'll bite.
>
>Why should the new owners of this club have to suffer
>for Peter Gatien's actions? Have they done anything to
>raise the concern that they will tolerate what he did?
>
>That's the worst kind of judgment against businessmen
>trying to run their business. Should the Limelight sit
>unused, drawing rats and vermin? Does anyone have a
>better use for it? These men are coming into this
>situation and trying to deal with it.
>
>Protesting them sight unseen is unfair. I can name
>more than one bar or club where the owners should lose
>their liquor license. But these guys haven't even
>opened up yet.
>
>
>If you live and/or work in Silicon Alley this does
>effect you. It effects the ability of our neighborhood
>to sustain and attract the Dot-com business that put
>us on the map in the first place. Many of us remember
>the shootings, knifings, broken bottles, noise and
>urine smell, of a half decade ago and don't want a
>repeat of that environment.
>
>---And there is zero evidence that this will occur
>again. None. I don't remember anyone complaining that
>Psuedo was a drug supermarket. Nor that the rampant
>drug use there created havoc on Broadway, despite
>constant visits from the Fire Marshal. Josh Harris's
>irresponsible behavior was a matter of record and no
>one here raised a word of complaint. Not at Psuedo, or
>in his loft. To jump on these guys now is rank
>hypocracy.
>
>The previous owner of the Limelight, Peter Gatien (now
>awaiting deportation) has been allowed by the
>bankruptcy court to sell the landmarked property to
>some of the same people who managed the place while he
>was in jail. The new owners have deep pockets and
>high-priced lawyers. A denial of a liquor license is
>the best tool the community has for closing the club
>and maintaining the neighborhood's quality of life.
>
>---And many of our former collegues, who stole
>millions have high priced lawyers. Until these guys
>run the club on their own and break the law, this
>action is unfair. It's the same kind of whining
>NIMBYism you get when people refuse to comsider ALL
>the businesses in the neighborhood. New owners could
>easily open a strip club there, or an under 21 club.
>
>A strong showing of support from the community is
>necessary as the opposition is expected to pack the
>room; so please come. If you would like to speak, come
>early and be sure to sign-in.
>
>
>Also, thank you letters and phone calls should be sent
>to Mayor Giuliiani and Deputy Mayor Washington for
>coming out in support of our community.
>
>---Since few blacks live there, he feels free to
>support THAT community. Even if they're misguided in
>their actions. The only thing I would suggest people
>thank our mayor for is the day he takes his bigotted
>ass out of City Hall. His "quality of life" campaign
>has resulted in thousands of arrests of minority
>youths for walking down the street. His years long
>campaign against nightlife in New York has resulted in
>the unjust arrests of thousands. Is this anything to
>thank anyone for? I think not.
>
>And to be on point, the Giuliani administration has
>been nearly silent on issues affecting this community,
>from broadband access to training. 55 Broad is not a
>technology policy. I would hope our next mayor does
>more than photo ops and pictures with CEO's.
>
>And phone calls need to be made to Christine Quinne,
>Senator Tom Duane
>and Borough President Virgina Field's office who have
>NOT given their support.
>
>---And rightly so. The misguided anti-nightlife
>campaign of Giuliani has hurt thousands of small
>businessmen who obey the laws and follow the rules.
>Yet, bars in some neighborhoods serve minors with no
>consequence. As small business owners and employees,
>the last thing we should do is wage an unfair and
>unjust war against many of the establishments we
>patronize for our events.
>
>I would suggest that we make alliances with other
>small business owners and not sic the mayor and his
>bizzare agenda on them. If anyone needs reminding this
>war on nightlife began when a few cops couldn't get
>ahead of the line at Hogs and Heifers. The next day,
>the bar was closed and hit with the obscure cabaret
>law. Wonder why you can't dance in a bar, that's why.
>A simple freedom taken away because Rudy had to back
>his cops in another fool's errand.
>
>So why not let these guys open their business and not
>praise the mayor for diminishing another freedom.
>
>We also need money for legal expenses. If you'd like
>to contribute, please contact Susan Finley
><finley@...>.
>
>
>TIA - larry
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
>http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Kim Moser
DATE: Tue 01:09
SUBJ: [wwwac] Web host reseller suggestions

It's time for me to consolidate several of my clients' hosts and I'm 
looking for a Web host reseller program so that I can at least make a few 
bucks for my troubles.

Any suggestions for a host that has a decent reseller program? I prefer 
hosts with Unix servers and telnet access.

--K








FROM: Adam Fialkov
DATE: Mon 22:15
SUBJ: [wwwac] Web host reseller suggestions

http://www.your-site.com/res-res.html

--
AF



-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Moser <mailto:kmoser@...>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 10:09 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] Web host reseller suggestions


It's time for me to consolidate several of my clients' hosts and I'm
looking for a Web host reseller program so that I can at least make a few
bucks for my troubles.

Any suggestions for a host that has a decent reseller program? I prefer
hosts with Unix servers and telnet access.

--K








FROM: Scott Bowling
DATE: Tue 01:28
SUBJ: [wwwac] Silicon Alley Quality of Life

On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:40:09 -0700 (PDT)
Scott Wickham <nylscottw@...> wrote:
> ...
> Not I deleted most of your message wouldn't want to
> get smack again for quoting over 40 lines.  ...
> 
Thank you for that, but characterizing the polite, if terse, list mom
reminder as a "smack" is a tad much, isn't it? Besides, after a couple
of forays into trying to stem the tide of such discourtesy, I've pretty
much given up on hoping against hope. Just three messages before yours
in my message queue is yet another of those wonderful messages with a
brief pithy reply sitting on top of 160+ lines of useless text,
including four copies of the list trailer that would have taken but a
couple of seconds to remove. This is disrespectful of the list as well
as the net in general, IMHO.

All that extra and useless text gets sent out to more than a couple
thousand people, encouraging them to do likewise -- again redistributed
to those couple thousand plus subscribers. This burns up a lot of 
bandwidth on the WWWAC's connection as well as the Internet in general.
Not to mention taking up space in the archives needlessly, wasting disk
space and affecting performance. 

I'm on another list that actually bounces messages if you don't remove
at least the previous message's list trailer, but it seems a shame to
have to go to that point. Trimming down replies is a simple courtesy and
respectful of netiquette in general.

But there've been no "smacks" or name calling or loss of posting
privileges or banishments, not even warnings, per se, just a few simple
reminders. And I've given up on those. Too much time for too little
gain, and it goes largely unappreciated.

Just asking for a little thoughtful consideration, after all.

Scott








FROM: Scott Wickham
DATE: Mon 22:39
SUBJ: [wwwac] Silicon Alley Quality of Life

I understand the idea of saving the bandwith and all
but I disagree with it. I prefer if people resend the
message. Why?

The lastest comments are on top.

And I can just read the latest message instead of the
5 to 25 I missed.

That is all. 



 

=====
Scott Wickham

74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt 
Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com    
for Sale by owner

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 07:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] Quality of Life

--part1_c4.1a83c1a2.28cf542f_boundary
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> Why should the new owners of this club have to suffer
> for Peter Gatien's actions? Have they done anything to
> raise the concern that they will tolerate what he did?
> 

They were part of a management at "Slimelight" (it got that name within a 
year of opening) that allowed and supported and lived off the Gatien regime. 
Why believe the they would do anything but continue the same policies?

> Should the Limelight sit unused, drawing rats and vermin? 

If representatives of the former regime aren't allowed to retain the property 
you're picturing that rats and vermin will take over? It's bizarre to imagine 
that happening to a property in a highly desirable area of Manhattan...

> Many of us remember the shootings, knifings, broken bottles, noise and
> urine smell, of a half decade ago and don't want a repeat of that 
> environment.
> 

I live downtown and VIVIDLY remember a NYC with all those things. Giuliani 
cleaned that up. And as a a resident of Manhattan and frequenter of licenced 
bars and clubs, I am grateful. 

Dinkins' "Calcutta-by-the-Sea" was a dirty, dangerous and, yes, less FUN 
place to live. 

> The previous owner of the Limelight, Peter Gatien (now
> awaiting deportation) has been allowed by the
> bankruptcy court to sell the landmarked property to
> some of the same people who managed the place while he
> was in jail. The new owners have deep pockets and
> high-priced lawyers. A denial of a liquor license is
> the best tool the community has for closing the club
> and maintaining the neighborhood's quality of life.
> 

Someone who doesn't recognize that the switching of ownership tactic 
described above as the classic way to keep the same undesirable management, 
and keep the same people from profiting, has certainly been living in a hole.

> New owners could easily open a strip club there, or an under 21 club. 
> 
If the new owners try to open a strip club, or under 21 club, they can be 
dealt with just as firmly. And anyone who buys or rents this property will be 
less likely to try to use it in a way that will offend a community that has 
cared enough about themselves, and fought hard enough for themselves, to toss 
out a sleazebag drug czar like Gatien.

> thank you letters and phone calls should be sent
> to Mayor Giuliiani and Deputy Mayor Washington for
> coming out in support of our community.
> 
> ---Since few blacks live there, he feels free to
> support THAT community. Even if they're misguided in their actions. The 
> only thing I would suggest people thank our mayor for is the day he takes 
> his bigotted
> ass out of City Hall. His "quality of life" campaign has resulted in 
> thousands of arrests of minority youths for walking down the street. His 
> years long
> campaign against nightlife in New York has resulted in the unjust arrests 
> of thousands. Is this anything to thank anyone for? I think not. 
> 

"resulted in thousands of arrests of minority youths for walking down the 
street"?

What kind of drugs are YOU taking?


> campaign of Giuliani has hurt thousands of small
> businessmen who obey the laws and follow the rules.
> 
More unsubstatiated rubbish. A rhetorical slant that has been picked up and 
repeated before: positioning a big, bad Giulani against poor little "small 
business owner." 

For every poor, pitiful "small business owner" who has been "hurt" by 
Giullani's cabaret laws that prevent the little feller from having loud music 
and dancing, there are dozens, if not hundreds of residents who live near 
that bar and who are even "smaller," who couldn't even raise the capital to 
start their own business, and who are grateful to Giulani because they can 
get sleep in their apartments in peace, and can walk home from their jobs 
without passing a gamut of garbage and noisy brats from the boroughs.

-Jim

--part1_c4.1a83c1a2.28cf542f_boundary--





FROM: jackie lightfield
DATE: Tue 08:30
SUBJ: [wwwac] I miss paying for CompuServe (spawn of Cool Banner Ad)

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C13A9C.0DAAEFA0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I miss CompuServe too. I set up the forums on both AOL and CompuServe for
every software company I worked at, and had a SYSOP level account for much
of my time. The mail services were wonderful. I suspect that we will see a
"pro" model of Internet services offered sometime, as the "free" model is
slowly evolving. I would easily subscribe to a service if I knew that I was
getting the same level of quality of content as the old CompuServe.

>>
That having been said, I can't imagine a scenario in which I would be

willing to pay an hourly connect fee--no matter how high the quality of

information. And if I won't, I suspect that most other people wouldn't

either.<<

jackie lightfield
president
blowtorch studios inc.
interactive publishing technology
http://www.blowtorch.com
319 peck st.
suite 36n
new haven, ct 06513
203/ 497-8832


------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C13A9C.0DAAEFA0--








FROM: McKeever, Marty
DATE: Tue 08:59
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Turn on CNN now!

you wont beleive your eyes..








FROM: Jesse Erlbaum
DATE: Tue 09:15
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


>Turn on CNN now!
>
>you wont beleive your eyes..

Whoasah...  I just lost most of my network televison channels.  The World
Trade Center is burning.








FROM: daniel vena
DATE: Tue 09:13
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

a plane has crashed into the world trade centre.  within 15 minutes, another
plane crashed into the other tower.

--
_d.vena \\ www.vena.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Erlbaum" <jesse@...>
To: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


>
> >Turn on CNN now!
> >
> >you wont beleive your eyes..
>
> Whoasah...  I just lost most of my network televison channels.  The World
> Trade Center is burning.








FROM: Karl  Long
DATE: Tue 09:20
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

--B_3083044841_1147593
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

all the news sites are totally overloaded, cnn is down as is msnbc.
I saw the picture it seemed like something out of a movie, this is horrible!
Karl


jesse@... stated:

> 
>> >Turn on CNN now!
>> >
>> >you wont beleive your eyes..
> 
> Whoasah...  I just lost most of my network televison channels.  The World
> Trade Center is burning.


--B_3083044841_1147593--








FROM: Chris Toliver
DATE: Tue 09:21
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

I witnessed the 1st plane hit as I was walking to work.

-----Original Message-----
From: daniel vena <mailto:daniel@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 09:14
To: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


a plane has crashed into the world trade centre.  within 15 minutes, another
plane crashed into the other tower.

--
_d.vena \\ www.vena.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Erlbaum" <jesse@...>
To: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


>
> >Turn on CNN now!
> >
> >you wont beleive your eyes..
>
> Whoasah...  I just lost most of my network televison channels.  The World
> Trade Center is burning.








FROM: Matt
DATE: Tue 09:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

United Airlines is reporting that the 2nd plane was a hijacked 757.

Karl Long wrote:

> all the news sites are totally overloaded, cnn is down as is msnbc.
> I saw the picture it seemed like something out of a movie, this is horrible!
> Karl
>
> jesse@... stated:
>
> >
> >> >Turn on CNN now!
> >> >
> >> >you wont beleive your eyes..
> >
> > Whoasah...  I just lost most of my network televison channels.  The World
> > Trade Center is burning.








FROM: Karl  Long
DATE: Tue 09:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

--B_3083045031_1159003
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

http://bbc.co.uk has news and pictures and hasn't gone down yet.
K

christ@... stated:

> I witnessed the 1st plane hit as I was walking to work.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: daniel vena <mailto:daniel@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 09:14
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> a plane has crashed into the world trade centre.  within 15 minutes, another
> plane crashed into the other tower.
> 
> --
> _d.vena \\ www.vena.net
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jesse Erlbaum" <jesse@...>
> To: <wwwac@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:15 AM
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
>> >
>>> > >Turn on CNN now!
>>> > >
>>> > >you wont beleive your eyes..
>> >
>> > Whoasah...  I just lost most of my network televison channels.  The World
>> > Trade Center is burning.


--B_3083045031_1159003--








FROM: David Choi
DATE: Tue 09:27
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

no friggin way... a 757?!?! that's over 200 passengers!

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt <mailto:mspiegler@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:23 AM
To: wwwac
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


United Airlines is reporting that the 2nd plane was a hijacked 757.

Karl Long wrote:

> all the news sites are totally overloaded, cnn is down as is msnbc.
> I saw the picture it seemed like something out of a movie, this is
horrible!
> Karl
>
> jesse@... stated:
>
> >
> >> >Turn on CNN now!
> >> >
> >> >you wont beleive your eyes..
> >
> > Whoasah...  I just lost most of my network televison channels.  The
World
> > Trade Center is burning.








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 09:28
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

I have a view of the WTC. My mom called and told me
and I took a bunch of pictures of it. But now I can't
call her back on my land line or my cell. Is anyone else
having phone problems?

I can get a picture but no sound on any of the local channels
except channel 2. 








FROM: daniel vena
DATE: Tue 09:34
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

i'm being told that pretty much all phone circuits are jammed in nyc... i'm
not there at the moment, so these are second-hand.  also, it seems that
public transportation is being shut down...

--
_d.vena \\ www.vena.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Amita Guha" <bfift2girl@...>
To: "Wwwac" <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:28 AM
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> I have a view of the WTC. My mom called and told me
> and I took a bunch of pictures of it. But now I can't
> call her back on my land line or my cell. Is anyone else
> having phone problems?
>
> I can get a picture but no sound on any of the local channels
> except channel 2.








FROM: Sue K
DATE: Tue 09:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Bush just said it's a terrorist attack.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amita Guha <mailto:bfift2girl@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:28 AM
> To: Wwwac
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
> I have a view of the WTC. My mom called and told me
> and I took a bunch of pictures of it. But now I can't
> call her back on my land line or my cell. Is anyone else
> having phone problems?
>
> I can get a picture but no sound on any of the local channels
> except channel 2.








FROM: Jesse Erlbaum
DATE: Tue 09:43
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it by
his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking shortly
before the crashes.








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 09:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it by
> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking shortly
> before the crashes.

I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
people figured out what had happened....








FROM: daniel vena
DATE: Tue 09:40
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

they're not "possible"

they know plane 1 was a hijacked passenger plane out of boston.

responsibility for the attack was just claimed on the BBC, but i can't get
to the information personally

--
_d.vena \\ www.vena.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Erlbaum" <jesse@...>
To: "'Wwwac '" <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it by
> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking shortly
> before the crashes.








FROM: Frank D. Greco
DATE: Tue 10:00
SUBJ: [wwwac] 2 Large Planes ram WTC Towers

Looks like two major-sized jets were hijacked
and rammed the towers.

fg
+======================================================================+
| Crossroads Technologies Inc, 55 Broad Street, 28th Fl, NYC, NY 10004 |
|    Mobile Java Application Engineering                               |
| Email: fgreco@...         Web: www.CrossroadsTech.com |
| Pager: 800-495-6244                   ePager: 4956244@...     |
| Voice: 212-482-5280 x229                 Fax: 212-482-5281           |
+======================================================================+








FROM: Frank D. Greco
DATE: Tue 10:01
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

At 09:28 AM 9/11/2001 -0400, Amita Guha wrote:
 >I have a view of the WTC. My mom called and told me
 >and I took a bunch of pictures of it. But now I can't
 >call her back on my land line or my cell. Is anyone else
 >having phone problems?

	Yes... a lot of problems.   There are lines 20 deep
	for pay phones now.

	fg
+======================================================================+
| Crossroads Technologies Inc, 55 Broad Street, 28th Fl, NYC, NY 10004 |
|    Mobile Java Application Engineering                               |
| Email: fgreco@...         Web: www.CrossroadsTech.com |
| Pager: 800-495-6244                   ePager: 4956244@...     |
| Voice: 212-482-5280 x229                 Fax: 212-482-5281           |
+======================================================================+








FROM: daniel vena
DATE: Tue 09:41
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

correction, cbs is reporting the palestinian DFLP is taking responsibility

--
_d.vena \\ www.vena.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Erlbaum" <jesse@...>
To: "'Wwwac '" <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it by
> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking shortly
> before the crashes.








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 09:44
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

The Pentagon is on fire too...WTF???








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 09:44
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

A plane crashed into the Pentagon as well!!!








FROM: Sue K
DATE: Tue 09:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

And there's a big fire on the Washington Mall.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amita Guha <mailto:bfift2girl@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:45 AM
> To: 'Wwwac '
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> A plane crashed into the Pentagon as well!!!








FROM: Steve Manes
DATE: Tue 09:51
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

At 09:43 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it by
>his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking shortly
>before the crashes.

Absolutely.  The second crash was obviously timed to hit after the news 
began coverage so it was well planned.  I'm looking out my back windows in 
Bay Ridge at the the Towers now.  It's the most grotesque sight I've ever 
seen.  My next door neighbor is freaking out.  Her husband is an ATF agent 
who was in the building.  She hasn't heard from him but the cellphones are 
out and he's probably on the case.  Karen's  just been summoned out of 
medical retirement to join a triosh(?) effort but they don't know how to 
get them into the city.  It looks like it will be an NYPD Harbor boat out 
of Brooklyn Army Terminal.

-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Shon Stafford
DATE: Tue 06:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] Re: so scary! Strong Bad, STRONG BAD

I didn't send the URL, but the creator of
HomestarRunner did the Flash part of our site.

The link that was sent was actually one of the most
low-key parts of the site. There are actually entire
episodes of this web-only cartoon. Plus there are some
fun games and things. Everyone should check out the
rest of the site:
http://www.homestarrunner.com

Here's one of my favorite parts:
http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail2.html

I can't believe there aren't more sites like this one.
Could this sort of idea replace Saturday morning
cartoons?

-Shon

> I can't recall who sent out that !awesome! flashy 
> url  with homestar hero 
> saying "pom pom", and, "marshamallow"... but that 
> was  FANTASTIC. Thank you, who ever it was.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 08:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

I'm outside of New York, so maybe I can keep you informed.  Two planes
crashed into the towers.  A few minutes ago there was an extremely large
explosion at the Pentagon and there is a fire on the Mall in Washington.
The White House has been evacuated and all government buildings are on
alert.

It's very scary.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amita Guha <mailto:bfift2girl@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:28 AM
> To: Wwwac
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> I have a view of the WTC. My mom called and told me
> and I took a bunch of pictures of it. But now I can't
> call her back on my land line or my cell. Is anyone else
> having phone problems?
> 
> I can get a picture but no sound on any of the local channels
> except channel 2. 








FROM: David Choi
DATE: Tue 09:50
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

okay... this is getting ridiculous... the pentagon??? that's hitting us
where it hurts the most.  then a mall... this is going to be war, no??
this is worse than the attack on pearl harbor!

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Manes <mailto:smanes@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:52 AM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


At 09:43 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it
by
>his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
shortly
>before the crashes.

Absolutely.  The second crash was obviously timed to hit after the news=20
began coverage so it was well planned.  I'm looking out my back windows
in=20
Bay Ridge at the the Towers now.  It's the most grotesque sight I've
ever=20
seen.  My next door neighbor is freaking out.  Her husband is an ATF
agent=20
who was in the building.  She hasn't heard from him but the cellphones
are=20
out and he's probably on the case.  Karen's  just been summoned out of=20
medical retirement to join a triosh(?) effort but they don't know how to

get them into the city.  It looks like it will be an NYPD Harbor boat
out=20
of Brooklyn Army Terminal.

-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=3Do&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: daniel vena
DATE: Tue 09:50
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

all air traffic across the country has been suspended.

--
_d.vena \\ www.vena.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Manes" <smanes@...>
To: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> At 09:43 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
> >The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it
by
> >his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking shortly
> >before the crashes.
>
> Absolutely.  The second crash was obviously timed to hit after the news
> began coverage so it was well planned.  I'm looking out my back windows in
> Bay Ridge at the the Towers now.  It's the most grotesque sight I've ever
> seen.  My next door neighbor is freaking out.  Her husband is an ATF agent
> who was in the building.  She hasn't heard from him but the cellphones are
> out and he's probably on the case.  Karen's  just been summoned out of
> medical retirement to join a triosh(?) effort but they don't know how to
> get them into the city.  It looks like it will be an NYPD Harbor boat out
> of Brooklyn Army Terminal.
>
> -----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
> Steve Manes
> Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Otto Avila
DATE: Tue 09:56
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Anyone who is home please stay home; Manhattan is for all purposes shut down.



 † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο †
 Otto Avila
 Web Designer & Site Builder
 http://www.ottostudio.com
 {718} 768-6383
 † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο †








FROM: cb
DATE: Tue 10:04
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

This is very scary. Nation under lockdown.

I believe this means war???

----- Original Message -----
From: "daniel vena" <daniel@...>
To: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> all air traffic across the country has been suspended.
>
> --
> _d.vena \\ www.vena.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Manes" <smanes@...>
> To: <wwwac@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:51 AM
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
> > At 09:43 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
> > >The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it
> by
> > >his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
shortly
> > >before the crashes.
> >
> > Absolutely.  The second crash was obviously timed to hit after the news
> > began coverage so it was well planned.  I'm looking out my back windows
in
> > Bay Ridge at the the Towers now.  It's the most grotesque sight I've
ever
> > seen.  My next door neighbor is freaking out.  Her husband is an ATF
agent
> > who was in the building.  She hasn't heard from him but the cellphones
are
> > out and he's probably on the case.  Karen's  just been summoned out of
> > medical retirement to join a triosh(?) effort but they don't know how to
> > get them into the city.  It looks like it will be an NYPD Harbor boat
out
> > of Brooklyn Army Terminal.
> >
> > -----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
> > Steve Manes
> > Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 09:57
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Wow, this is so surreal! Bush is on his way back to DC and said he'd hunt
down the people responsible. War anyone? :(

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:56 AM
> Cc: Wwwac
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
> Anyone who is home please stay home; Manhattan is for all
> purposes shut down.
>
>
>
>  † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο †
>  Otto Avila
>  Web Designer & Site Builder
>  http://www.ottostudio.com
>  {718} 768-6383
>  † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο †








FROM: David Choi
DATE: Tue 09:58
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

there is definitely going to be retaliation for this.  and with the
economy in shambles, i doubt bush won't think twice about launch some
major offense to get things fiscally.

-----Original Message-----
From: cb <mailto:easteregg@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:04 AM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


This is very scary. Nation under lockdown.

I believe this means war???

----- Original Message -----
From: "daniel vena" <daniel@...>
To: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> all air traffic across the country has been suspended.
>
> --
> _d.vena \\ www.vena.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Manes" <smanes@...>
> To: <wwwac@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:51 AM
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
> > At 09:43 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
> > >The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question
about it
> by
> > >his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
shortly
> > >before the crashes.
> >
> > Absolutely.  The second crash was obviously timed to hit after the
news
> > began coverage so it was well planned.  I'm looking out my back
windows
in
> > Bay Ridge at the the Towers now.  It's the most grotesque sight I've
ever
> > seen.  My next door neighbor is freaking out.  Her husband is an ATF
agent
> > who was in the building.  She hasn't heard from him but the
cellphones
are
> > out and he's probably on the case.  Karen's  just been summoned out
of
> > medical retirement to join a triosh(?) effort but they don't know
how to
> > get them into the city.  It looks like it will be an NYPD Harbor
boat
out
> > of Brooklyn Army Terminal.
> >
> > -----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com =
]-------=3Do&>o-------
> > Steve Manes
> > Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 09:59
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

No to mention that Washington is burning.


On 11-09-2001 10:04, "cb" <easteregg@...> wrote:

> This is very scary. Nation under lockdown.
> 
> I believe this means war???
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "daniel vena" <daniel@...>
> To: <wwwac@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
>> all air traffic across the country has been suspended.
>> 
>> --
>> _d.vena \\ www.vena.net
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Manes" <smanes@...>
>> To: <wwwac@...>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:51 AM
>> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>> 
>> 
>>> At 09:43 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>>>> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it
>> by
>>>> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
> shortly
>>>> before the crashes.
>>> 
>>> Absolutely.  The second crash was obviously timed to hit after the news
>>> began coverage so it was well planned.  I'm looking out my back windows
> in
>>> Bay Ridge at the the Towers now.  It's the most grotesque sight I've
> ever
>>> seen.  My next door neighbor is freaking out.  Her husband is an ATF
> agent
>>> who was in the building.  She hasn't heard from him but the cellphones
> are
>>> out and he's probably on the case.  Karen's  just been summoned out of
>>> medical retirement to join a triosh(?) effort but they don't know how to
>>> get them into the city.  It looks like it will be an NYPD Harbor boat
> out
>>> of Brooklyn Army Terminal.
>>> 
>>> -----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
>>> Steve Manes
>>> Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: daniel vena
DATE: Tue 09:58
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

i've got my draft card :P

but seriously... no one knows who did this, and considering the fact that
the FBI arrested two people recently planning to do something like this, AND
that they said they're not alone and can't be stopped, the possibility of
this being domestic is high.

nbc10, by the way, just reported that the second plane to hit the wtc might
have been a government plane.

pentagon is on fire, as is the washington mall...


--
_d.vena \\ www.vena.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "cb" <easteregg@...>
To: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> This is very scary. Nation under lockdown.
>
> I believe this means war???
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "daniel vena" <daniel@...>
> To: <wwwac@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
> > all air traffic across the country has been suspended.
> >
> > --
> > _d.vena \\ www.vena.net
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Manes" <smanes@...>
> > To: <wwwac@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:51 AM
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> >
> >
> > > At 09:43 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
> > > >The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about
it
> > by
> > > >his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
> shortly
> > > >before the crashes.
> > >
> > > Absolutely.  The second crash was obviously timed to hit after the
news
> > > began coverage so it was well planned.  I'm looking out my back
windows
> in
> > > Bay Ridge at the the Towers now.  It's the most grotesque sight I've
> ever
> > > seen.  My next door neighbor is freaking out.  Her husband is an ATF
> agent
> > > who was in the building.  She hasn't heard from him but the cellphones
> are
> > > out and he's probably on the case.  Karen's  just been summoned out of
> > > medical retirement to join a triosh(?) effort but they don't know how
to
> > > get them into the city.  It looks like it will be an NYPD Harbor boat
> out
> > > of Brooklyn Army Terminal.
> > >
> > > -----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
> > > Steve Manes
> > > Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Jesse Erlbaum
DATE: Tue 10:08
SUBJ: [wwwac] Gone

The north tower of the World Trade Center just collapsed.








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 09:01
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

The south tower is collapsing into the street.

The pentagon was also a plane.

There is now a fire at the state dept.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jessica Elkin <mailto:kvixen@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:58 AM
> To: kika@...
> Cc: Wwwac
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>=20
>=20
> Wow, this is so surreal! Bush is on his way back to DC and=20
> said he'd hunt
> down the people responsible. War anyone? :(
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:56 AM
> > Cc: Wwwac
> > Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> >
> >
> > Anyone who is home please stay home; Manhattan is for all
> > purposes shut down.
> >
> >
> >
> >  =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA
> >  Otto Avila
> >  Web Designer & Site Builder
> >  http://www.ottostudio.com
> >  {718} 768-6383
> >  =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA








FROM: Chick Foxgrover
DATE: Tue 09:55
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Please continue any reports, I have no other connectivity at this time.








FROM: Sue K
DATE: Tue 09:55
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

> 
> nbc10, by the way, just reported that the second plane to hit the 
> wtc might
> have been a government plane.
> 
> pentagon is on fire, as is the washington mall...

And it was a military helicopter that started the fire at the pentagon.

Sear Tower has been closed

this is so scary








FROM: David Choi
DATE: Tue 10:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

the whole tower or just the top?

-----Original Message-----
From: Chick Foxgrover <mailto:cfservices@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:55 AM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


Please continue any reports, I have no other connectivity at this time.








FROM: Otto Avila
DATE: Tue 10:08
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

> Please continue any reports, I have no other connectivity at this time.

Keep your radios tuned in, all major online news sites are either overloaded or
down.





 † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο †
 Otto Avila
 Web Designer & Site Builder
 http://www.ottostudio.com
 {718} 768-6383
 † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο †








FROM: Ari
DATE: Tue 10:08
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


it's only war if we know who did it.

however, many who follow current headlines have a good idea.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Shelter all the people who have nothing to say.
Because we're only gone tommorow and here today."

			 -- Big Audio Dynamite (V.Thirteen)

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, cb wrote:

> This is very scary. Nation under lockdown.
> 
> I believe this means war???
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "daniel vena" <daniel@...>
> To: <wwwac@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> > all air traffic across the country has been suspended.
> >
> > --
> > _d.vena \\ www.vena.net
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Manes" <smanes@...>
> > To: <wwwac@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:51 AM
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> >
> >
> > > At 09:43 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
> > > >The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it
> > by
> > > >his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
> shortly
> > > >before the crashes.
> > >
> > > Absolutely.  The second crash was obviously timed to hit after the news
> > > began coverage so it was well planned.  I'm looking out my back windows
> in
> > > Bay Ridge at the the Towers now.  It's the most grotesque sight I've
> ever
> > > seen.  My next door neighbor is freaking out.  Her husband is an ATF
> agent
> > > who was in the building.  She hasn't heard from him but the cellphones
> are
> > > out and he's probably on the case.  Karen's  just been summoned out of
> > > medical retirement to join a triosh(?) effort but they don't know how to
> > > get them into the city.  It looks like it will be an NYPD Harbor boat
> out
> > > of Brooklyn Army Terminal.
> > >
> > > -----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
> > > Steve Manes
> > > Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 09:08
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

The South tower has collapsed completely.

The Sears tower has been evacuated.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shirley, Scott <mailto:SShirley@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:02 AM
> Cc: Wwwac
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>=20
>=20
> The south tower is collapsing into the street.
>=20
> The pentagon was also a plane.
>=20
> There is now a fire at the state dept.
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jessica Elkin <mailto:kvixen@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:58 AM
> > To: kika@...
> > Cc: Wwwac
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> >=20
> >=20
> > Wow, this is so surreal! Bush is on his way back to DC and=20
> > said he'd hunt
> > down the people responsible. War anyone? :(
> >=20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:56 AM
> > > Cc: Wwwac
> > > Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyone who is home please stay home; Manhattan is for all
> > > purposes shut down.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA
> > >  Otto Avila
> > >  Web Designer & Site Builder
> > >  http://www.ottostudio.com
> > >  {718} 768-6383
> > >  =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA








FROM: Daniel R. Allen
DATE: Tue 09:56
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

http://slashdot.org/articles/01/09/11/1314258.shtml is up and reporting
other sites with info that are less loaded.

http://www.timesofindia.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=3D1275193481
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/front.htm

-Daniel Allen

$_=3D'daniel@... 519-575-3733  /Prescient Code Solutions/  coder.com
';s/-/ /g;s/([.@... $1/g;@...
42*5436+3,42*2886+10,42*434987+5);s/(.)/ord(uc($1))/ge;for(@...
@... map{print chr} split /(..)/, shift(@... + shift(@... {perlmonk.da.ru}

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Otto Avila wrote:

> > Please continue any reports, I have no other connectivity at this time.
>=20
> Keep your radios tuned in, all major online news sites are either overloa=
ded or
> down.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>  =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA
>  Otto Avila
>  Web Designer & Site Builder
>  http://www.ottostudio.com
>  {718} 768-6383
>  =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 10:10
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Looks like the top half. It was hit by the second plane, and the fire
probably melted the steel. I expect the higher hit to go soon.

David Choi wrote:
> 
> the whole tower or just the top?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chick Foxgrover <mailto:cfservices@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:55 AM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> Please continue any reports, I have no other connectivity at this time.








FROM: Ezra Alexander
DATE: Tue 10:01
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

When Bush Sr's polls went down we went to war, Jr's polls are down, we're
attacked.  I can't help but get paranoid about this being some twisted plan
to get our country ready to go to war and make a hero out of Dubya.


on 9/11/01 9:38 AM, Amita Guha at bfift2girl@... wrote:

>> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it by
>> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking shortly
>> before the crashes.
> 
> I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
> the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
> bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
> people figured out what had happened....
> 
> 
> 

-- 

Ezra Alexander
founder | CTO
http://lucidCircus.com

v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067

"You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"








FROM: Steve Manes
DATE: Tue 10:15
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

At 10:04 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>I believe this means war???

Who do you hit?  This was probably engineered by a couple of dozen maniacs 
with no official, or at least traceable, ties to any government.  All you 
need are three (maybe more... the day's not over yet) kamikaze pilots.

US military jets just screamed over my house.


-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 09:13
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Looks like the whole thing.  There were also thousands of people in the
street.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Choi <mailto:dave@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:06 AM
> To: Chick Foxgrover; wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> the whole tower or just the top?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chick Foxgrover <mailto:cfservices@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:55 AM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> Please continue any reports, I have no other connectivity at 
> this time.








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
DATE: Tue 10:13
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

The Collaspe of the second building is
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/wtc/


Ruben
_____________________________________

On 2001.09.11 10:01:38 -0400 Ezra Alexander wrote:
When Bush Sr's polls went down we went to war, Jr's polls are down, we're
attacked.  I can't help but get paranoid about this being some twisted plan
to get our country ready to go to war and make a hero out of Dubya.


on 9/11/01 9:38 AM, Amita Guha at bfift2girl@... wrote:

>> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it
by
>> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
shortly
>> before the crashes.
> 
> I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
> the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
> bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
> people figured out what had happened....
> 
> 
> 

-- 

Ezra Alexander
founder | CTO
http://lucidCircus.com

v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067

"You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"



-- 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: daniel vena
DATE: Tue 10:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

philadelphia is deserted... everyone is inside watching the news...

this is spooky.

--
_d.vena \\ www.vena.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brooklyn Linux Solutions" <ruben@...>
To: "Ezra Alexander" <ezra@...>
Cc: "WWWAC" <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> The Collaspe of the second building is
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/wtc/
>
>
> Ruben
> _____________________________________
>
> On 2001.09.11 10:01:38 -0400 Ezra Alexander wrote:
> When Bush Sr's polls went down we went to war, Jr's polls are down, we're
> attacked.  I can't help but get paranoid about this being some twisted
plan
> to get our country ready to go to war and make a hero out of Dubya.
>
>
> on 9/11/01 9:38 AM, Amita Guha at bfift2girl@... wrote:
>
> >> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it
> by
> >> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
> shortly
> >> before the crashes.
> >
> > I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
> > the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
> > bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
> > people figured out what had happened....
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Ezra Alexander
> founder | CTO
> http://lucidCircus.com
>
> v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
> aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067
>
> "You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"
>
>
>
> --
> Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> http://www.brooklynonline.com
>
> 1-718-382-5752








FROM: Pame McMahon
DATE: Tue 10:35
SUBJ: [wwwac]  Holy Smoke

Are you out of your mind? When Bush sr's polls were down, yes we went to
war. We had to go to war. Bush jr's polls are down because of the economy
and you think his solution is to blow up the world's fiancial center and
kill possibily hundred's of thousands or millions of people. Do you think he
blew up the pentagon too??? And the mall on washington? and now capitol
hill??? Give me a break. I know we all like to spout off sarcastic and
cynical quips but you've gone too far! I used to work in that building.
There were thousands of people at work and now they're all dead and you have
the nerve to blame the president of the united states because his polls are
down?!?!?!?!?!

You make me sick.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ezra Alexander <mailto:ezra@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:02 AM
To: WWWAC
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


When Bush Sr's polls went down we went to war, Jr's polls are down, we're
attacked.  I can't help but get paranoid about this being some twisted plan
to get our country ready to go to war and make a hero out of Dubya.


on 9/11/01 9:38 AM, Amita Guha at bfift2girl@... wrote:

>> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it
by
>> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking shortly
>> before the crashes.
>
> I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
> the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
> bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
> people figured out what had happened....
>
>
>

--

Ezra Alexander
founder | CTO
http://lucidCircus.com

v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067

"You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"








FROM: Otto Avila
DATE: Tue 10:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

> The Collaspe of the second building is
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/wtc/

Thank you Ruben. All of the news sites i try are dead.

One of the twin towers has come down{50,000 people?}. The casualties must be
incredible. The Pentagon is on fire. Air Force One is in the air. My concern
and best wishes for anyone with loved ones in the areas.



- Otto








FROM: Don McCormick
DATE: Tue 10:25
SUBJ: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?

There are conflicting reports.

I have friends in Tower 1 who were trapped on the 89th floor.

Anybody know for sure?
 
/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
Don McCormick








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 10:25
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Car bomb at State Dept. , and another plane hijacked now heading towards
DC.

daniel vena wrote:
> 
> philadelphia is deserted... everyone is inside watching the news...
> 
> this is spooky.
> 
> --
> _d.vena \\ www.vena.net
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brooklyn Linux Solutions" <ruben@...>
> To: "Ezra Alexander" <ezra@...>
> Cc: "WWWAC" <wwwac@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> > The Collaspe of the second building is
> > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/wtc/
> >
> >
> > Ruben
> > _____________________________________
> >
> > On 2001.09.11 10:01:38 -0400 Ezra Alexander wrote:
> > When Bush Sr's polls went down we went to war, Jr's polls are down, we're
> > attacked.  I can't help but get paranoid about this being some twisted
> plan
> > to get our country ready to go to war and make a hero out of Dubya.
> >
> >
> > on 9/11/01 9:38 AM, Amita Guha at bfift2girl@... wrote:
> >
> > >> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it
> > by
> > >> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
> > shortly
> > >> before the crashes.
> > >
> > > I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
> > > the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
> > > bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
> > > people figured out what had happened....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Ezra Alexander
> > founder | CTO
> > http://lucidCircus.com
> >
> > v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
> > aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067
> >
> > "You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> > http://www.brooklynonline.com
> >
> > 1-718-382-5752








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 09:25
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Car bomb at the State Dept.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shirley, Scott <mailto:SShirley@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:13 AM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> Looks like the whole thing.  There were also thousands of 
> people in the
> street.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Choi <mailto:dave@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:06 AM
> > To: Chick Foxgrover; wwwac@...
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> > 
> > 
> > the whole tower or just the top?
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chick Foxgrover <mailto:cfservices@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:55 AM
> > To: wwwac@...
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> > 
> > 
> > Please continue any reports, I have no other connectivity at 
> > this time.








FROM: Marty Landman
DATE: Tue 10:24
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

At 10:26 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:

>One of the twin towers has come down{50,000 people?}. The casualties must be
>incredible. The Pentagon is on fire. Air Force One is in the air. My concern
>and best wishes for anyone with loved ones in the areas.

I live in upstate NY and the radio's starting to announce local school 
closings. just a couple so far.

Marty








FROM: David Choi
DATE: Tue 10:27
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

you mean there's yet another hijacked plane in the air??

-----Original Message-----
From: KNOdom <mailto:knodom@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:26 AM
To: daniel vena
Cc: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


Car bomb at State Dept. , and another plane hijacked now heading towards
DC.

daniel vena wrote:
>=20
> philadelphia is deserted... everyone is inside watching the news...
>=20
> this is spooky.
>=20
> --
> _d.vena \\ www.vena.net
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brooklyn Linux Solutions" <ruben@...>
> To: "Ezra Alexander" <ezra@...>
> Cc: "WWWAC" <wwwac@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>=20
> > The Collaspe of the second building is
> > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/wtc/
> >
> >
> > Ruben
> > _____________________________________
> >
> > On 2001.09.11 10:01:38 -0400 Ezra Alexander wrote:
> > When Bush Sr's polls went down we went to war, Jr's polls are down,
we're
> > attacked.  I can't help but get paranoid about this being some
twisted
> plan
> > to get our country ready to go to war and make a hero out of Dubya.
> >
> >
> > on 9/11/01 9:38 AM, Amita Guha at bfift2girl@... wrote:
> >
> > >> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question
about it
> > by
> > >> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
> > shortly
> > >> before the crashes.
> > >
> > > I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
> > > the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
> > > bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
> > > people figured out what had happened....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Ezra Alexander
> > founder | CTO
> > http://lucidCircus.com
> >
> > v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
> > aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067
> >
> > "You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> > http://www.brooklynonline.com
> >
> > 1-718-382-5752








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 09:28
SUBJ: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?

It was the tower to the south.  I don't know what number that is.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don McCormick <mailto:don@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:26 AM
> To: wwwac
> Subject: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?
> 
> 
> There are conflicting reports.
> 
> I have friends in Tower 1 who were trapped on the 89th floor.
> 
> Anybody know for sure?
>  
> /:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
> Don McCormick








FROM: Otto Avila
DATE: Tue 10:31
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

The 2nd tower is also down.



- Otto Avila








FROM: Patricia Tagle
DATE: Tue 10:24
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

They are both gone....

-----Original Message-----
From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:31 AM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


The 2nd tower is also down.



- Otto Avila








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 10:30
SUBJ: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?

The top of twc1 just collapsed.

Shirley, Scott wrote:
> 
> It was the tower to the south.  I don't know what number that is.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Don McCormick <mailto:don@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:26 AM
> > To: wwwac
> > Subject: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?
> >
> >
> > There are conflicting reports.
> >
> > I have friends in Tower 1 who were trapped on the 89th floor.
> >
> > Anybody know for sure?
> >
> > /:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
> > Don McCormick








FROM: Carole Filangieri
DATE: Tue 10:30
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Both towers are gone

>At 10:26 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>One of the twin towers has come down{50,000 people?}. The casualties must be
>>incredible. The Pentagon is on fire. Air Force One is in the air. My concern
>>and best wishes for anyone with loved ones in the areas.
>
>I live in upstate NY and the radio's starting to announce local 
>school closings. just a couple so far.
>
>Marty
>
>
>

________________________________________
Allegra Media
http://www.allegramedia.com








FROM: Ezra Alexander
DATE: Tue 10:20
SUBJ: [wwwac]  Holy Smoke

After this election I have zero faith in our government.  The supreme court
decision, the admin refusing to reveal information on how they formulate
policy... further back, not to say Dubya is a nazi sympathizer but his
grandfather was to the tune of $50 million dollars.  The more I read about
the Bush family and the current administration the more paranoid I become.

Yes its wrong to point fingers but I believe that every possibility should
be considered.  Was it not suspected that the attack on Pearl Harbor was
done with the administrations knowledge?

I don't mean to be stirring up dissent but I have no faith left.


on 9/11/01 10:35 AM, Pame McMahon at pame.mcmahon@... wrote:

> Are you out of your mind? When Bush sr's polls were down, yes we went to
> war. We had to go to war. Bush jr's polls are down because of the economy
> and you think his solution is to blow up the world's fiancial center and
> kill possibily hundred's of thousands or millions of people. Do you think he
> blew up the pentagon too??? And the mall on washington? and now capitol
> hill??? Give me a break. I know we all like to spout off sarcastic and
> cynical quips but you've gone too far! I used to work in that building.
> There were thousands of people at work and now they're all dead and you have
> the nerve to blame the president of the united states because his polls are
> down?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> You make me sick.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ezra Alexander <mailto:ezra@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:02 AM
> To: WWWAC
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> When Bush Sr's polls went down we went to war, Jr's polls are down, we're
> attacked.  I can't help but get paranoid about this being some twisted plan
> to get our country ready to go to war and make a hero out of Dubya.
> 
> 
> on 9/11/01 9:38 AM, Amita Guha at bfift2girl@... wrote:
> 
>>> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it
> by
>>> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking shortly
>>> before the crashes.
>> 
>> I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
>> the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
>> bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
>> people figured out what had happened....
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> --
> 
> Ezra Alexander
> founder | CTO
> http://lucidCircus.com
> 
> v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
> aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067
> 
> "You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 

Ezra Alexander
founder | CTO
http://lucidCircus.com

v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067

"You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"








FROM: Thomas Walser
DATE: Tue 10:30
SUBJ: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?

just heard they both collapsed

"Shirley, Scott" wrote:

> It was the tower to the south.  I don't know what number that is.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Don McCormick <mailto:don@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:26 AM
> > To: wwwac
> > Subject: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?
> >
> >
> > There are conflicting reports.
> >
> > I have friends in Tower 1 who were trapped on the 89th floor.
> >
> > Anybody know for sure?
> >
> > /:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
> > Don McCormick








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 10:31
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

All pedestrians near Pentagon are being told to take cover.

David Choi wrote:
> 
> you mean there's yet another hijacked plane in the air??
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: KNOdom <mailto:knodom@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:26 AM
> To: daniel vena
> Cc: wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> Car bomb at State Dept. , and another plane hijacked now heading towards
> DC.
> 
> daniel vena wrote:
> >
> > philadelphia is deserted... everyone is inside watching the news...
> >
> > this is spooky.
> >
> > --
> > _d.vena \\ www.vena.net
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brooklyn Linux Solutions" <ruben@...>
> > To: "Ezra Alexander" <ezra@...>
> > Cc: "WWWAC" <wwwac@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:13 AM
> > Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> >
> > > The Collaspe of the second building is
> > > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/wtc/
> > >
> > >
> > > Ruben
> > > _____________________________________
> > >
> > > On 2001.09.11 10:01:38 -0400 Ezra Alexander wrote:
> > > When Bush Sr's polls went down we went to war, Jr's polls are down,
> we're
> > > attacked.  I can't help but get paranoid about this being some
> twisted
> > plan
> > > to get our country ready to go to war and make a hero out of Dubya.
> > >
> > >
> > > on 9/11/01 9:38 AM, Amita Guha at bfift2girl@... wrote:
> > >
> > > >> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question
> about it
> > > by
> > > >> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
> > > shortly
> > > >> before the crashes.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
> > > > the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
> > > > bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
> > > > people figured out what had happened....
> > > --
> > >
> > > Ezra Alexander
> > > founder | CTO
> > > http://lucidCircus.com
> > >
> > > v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
> > > aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067
> > >
> > > "You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"
> > >
> > > --
> > > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> > > http://www.brooklynonline.com
> > >
> > > 1-718-382-5752








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 09:31
SUBJ: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?

The second tower just collapsed.  This is horrible.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don McCormick <mailto:don@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:26 AM
> To: wwwac
> Subject: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?
> 
> 
> There are conflicting reports.
> 
> I have friends in Tower 1 who were trapped on the 89th floor.
> 
> Anybody know for sure?
>  
> /:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
> Don McCormick








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 09:31
SUBJ: [wwwac]  Holy Smoke

I'd like to remind everyone that this is the ultimate goal of terrorism --
to force people to question their safety and everything they know.  I like
Bush about as little as anyone, but he would NEVER do something like what
has been suggested.

I implore people to focus on the human tragedy here.  There will be plenty
of time for sniping, blame and recriminations later.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pame McMahon <mailto:pame.mcmahon@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:35 AM
> To: Wwwac
> Subject: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> Are you out of your mind? When Bush sr's polls were down, yes 
> we went to
> war. We had to go to war. Bush jr's polls are down because of 
> the economy
> and you think his solution is to blow up the world's fiancial 
> center and
> kill possibily hundred's of thousands or millions of people. 
> Do you think he
> blew up the pentagon too??? And the mall on washington? and 
> now capitol
> hill??? Give me a break. I know we all like to spout off sarcastic and
> cynical quips but you've gone too far! I used to work in that 
> building.
> There were thousands of people at work and now they're all 
> dead and you have
> the nerve to blame the president of the united states because 
> his polls are
> down?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> You make me sick.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ezra Alexander <mailto:ezra@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:02 AM
> To: WWWAC
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> When Bush Sr's polls went down we went to war, Jr's polls are 
> down, we're
> attacked.  I can't help but get paranoid about this being 
> some twisted plan
> to get our country ready to go to war and make a hero out of Dubya.
> 
> 
> on 9/11/01 9:38 AM, Amita Guha at bfift2girl@... wrote:
> 
> >> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No 
> question about it
> by
> >> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible 
> hijacking shortly
> >> before the crashes.
> >
> > I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
> > the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
> > bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
> > people figured out what had happened....

--

Ezra Alexander
founder | CTO
http://lucidCircus.com

v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067

"You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"








FROM: Patricia Tagle
DATE: Tue 10:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?

They are both gone now

-----Original Message-----
From: KNOdom <mailto:knodom@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:30 AM
To: Shirley, Scott
Cc: Don McCormick; wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?


The top of twc1 just collapsed.

Shirley, Scott wrote:
> 
> It was the tower to the south.  I don't know what number that is.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Don McCormick <mailto:don@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:26 AM
> > To: wwwac
> > Subject: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?
> >
> >
> > There are conflicting reports.
> >
> > I have friends in Tower 1 who were trapped on the 89th floor.
> >
> > Anybody know for sure?
> >
> > /:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
> > Don McCormick








FROM: Sue K
DATE: Tue 10:25
SUBJ: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?

both towers are down.  and a car bomb went off at the state department.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:31 AM
> To: Shirley, Scott
> Cc: Don McCormick; wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?
>
>
> just heard they both collapsed
>
> "Shirley, Scott" wrote:
>
> > It was the tower to the south.  I don't know what number that is.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Don McCormick <mailto:don@...>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:26 AM
> > > To: wwwac
> > > Subject: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?
> > >
> > >
> > > There are conflicting reports.
> > >
> > > I have friends in Tower 1 who were trapped on the 89th floor.
> > >
> > > Anybody know for sure?
> > >
> > > /:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
> > > Don McCormick








FROM: Carole Filangieri
DATE: Tue 10:35
SUBJ: [wwwac] WTC info

First plane to hit towers was AA flight 11 from Boston to LA.

cf


________________________________________
Allegra Media
http://www.allegramedia.com








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
DATE: Tue 10:34
SUBJ: [wwwac] Which tower collapsed?

They both Collapsed

On 2001.09.11 10:25:38 -0400 Don McCormick wrote:
There are conflicting reports.

I have friends in Tower 1 who were trapped on the 89th floor.

Anybody know for sure?
 
/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
Don McCormick



-- 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: Priyamvada(Priya) Varadachary
DATE: Tue 10:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


Does anyone know what floors Amex is on.
My brother works there and I have no news.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
Priya

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Chick Foxgrover wrote:

> Please continue any reports, I have no other connectivity at this time.








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 10:37
SUBJ: [wwwac]  Holy Smoke

I just watched from Jersey City as the 2nd tower collapsed. This is the
scariest thing I have ever seen in my life.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shirley, Scott <mailto:SShirley@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:32 AM
> To: Wwwac
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
> I'd like to remind everyone that this is the ultimate goal of terrorism --
> to force people to question their safety and everything they know.  I like
> Bush about as little as anyone, but he would NEVER do something like what
> has been suggested.
>
> I implore people to focus on the human tragedy here.  There will be plenty
> of time for sniping, blame and recriminations later.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pame McMahon <mailto:pame.mcmahon@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:35 AM
> > To: Wwwac
> > Subject: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> >
> >
> > Are you out of your mind? When Bush sr's polls were down, yes
> > we went to
> > war. We had to go to war. Bush jr's polls are down because of
> > the economy
> > and you think his solution is to blow up the world's fiancial
> > center and
> > kill possibily hundred's of thousands or millions of people.
> > Do you think he
> > blew up the pentagon too??? And the mall on washington? and
> > now capitol
> > hill??? Give me a break. I know we all like to spout off sarcastic and
> > cynical quips but you've gone too far! I used to work in that
> > building.
> > There were thousands of people at work and now they're all
> > dead and you have
> > the nerve to blame the president of the united states because
> > his polls are
> > down?!?!?!?!?!
> >
> > You make me sick.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ezra Alexander <mailto:ezra@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:02 AM
> > To: WWWAC
> > Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> >
> >
> > When Bush Sr's polls went down we went to war, Jr's polls are
> > down, we're
> > attacked.  I can't help but get paranoid about this being
> > some twisted plan
> > to get our country ready to go to war and make a hero out of Dubya.
> >
> >
> > on 9/11/01 9:38 AM, Amita Guha at bfift2girl@... wrote:
> >
> > >> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No
> > question about it
> > by
> > >> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible
> > hijacking shortly
> > >> before the crashes.
> > >
> > > I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
> > > the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
> > > bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
> > > people figured out what had happened....
>
> --
>
> Ezra Alexander
> founder | CTO
> http://lucidCircus.com
>
> v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
> aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067
>
> "You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"








FROM: Pame McMahon
DATE: Tue 10:50
SUBJ: [wwwac]  Holy Smoke

Completely agreed. Thank you scott.
My cousin works in tower 2 on a lower floor. She got out after the first
plane hit and saw the second one crash into the second tower.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley, Scott <mailto:SShirley@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:32 AM
To: Wwwac
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


I'd like to remind everyone that this is the ultimate goal of terrorism --
to force people to question their safety and everything they know.  I like
Bush about as little as anyone, but he would NEVER do something like what
has been suggested.

I implore people to focus on the human tragedy here.  There will be plenty
of time for sniping, blame and recriminations later.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pame McMahon <mailto:pame.mcmahon@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:35 AM
> To: Wwwac
> Subject: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
> Are you out of your mind? When Bush sr's polls were down, yes
> we went to
> war. We had to go to war. Bush jr's polls are down because of
> the economy
> and you think his solution is to blow up the world's fiancial
> center and
> kill possibily hundred's of thousands or millions of people.
> Do you think he
> blew up the pentagon too??? And the mall on washington? and
> now capitol
> hill??? Give me a break. I know we all like to spout off sarcastic and
> cynical quips but you've gone too far! I used to work in that
> building.
> There were thousands of people at work and now they're all
> dead and you have
> the nerve to blame the president of the united states because
> his polls are
> down?!?!?!?!?!
>
> You make me sick.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ezra Alexander <mailto:ezra@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:02 AM
> To: WWWAC
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
> When Bush Sr's polls went down we went to war, Jr's polls are
> down, we're
> attacked.  I can't help but get paranoid about this being
> some twisted plan
> to get our country ready to go to war and make a hero out of Dubya.
>
>
> on 9/11/01 9:38 AM, Amita Guha at bfift2girl@... wrote:
>
> >> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No
> question about it
> by
> >> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible
> hijacking shortly
> >> before the crashes.
> >
> > I'm sure it is, just because there were two crashes at
> > the same time. The thing is, I remember when the WTC was
> > bombed, there were all these rumors flying around before
> > people figured out what had happened....
> >
> >
> >

--

Ezra Alexander
founder | CTO
http://lucidCircus.com

v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067

"You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 14:39
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

we've got a bunch of people on the 51st floor of on of 
them and word is they were all evacced successfully, so 
try to keep up hope
> 
> Does anyone know what floors Amex is on.
> My brother works there and I have no news.
> Any help appreciated.
> Thanks
> Priya
> 
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Chick Foxgrover wrote:
> 
> > Please continue any reports, I have no other connectivity at this time.








FROM: Pame McMahon
DATE: Tue 10:53
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

well if we'd blow them up already this probably wouldn't have happened.

-----Original Message-----
From: daniel vena <mailto:daniel@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:42 AM
To: 'Wwwac '
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


correction, cbs is reporting the palestinian DFLP is taking responsibility

--
_d.vena \\ www.vena.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Erlbaum" <jesse@...>
To: "'Wwwac '" <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about it by
> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking shortly
> before the crashes.








FROM: Jonathan Ezor
DATE: Tue 10:36
SUBJ: [wwwac] What can WWWAC do to help?

My thoughts and prayers are with the WWWACies who may have been working in
downtown Manhattan (or, God forbid, the World Trade Center) this morning.
Let's think whether there's anything we collectively as an organization can
do to help.  {Jonathan}

-------------------
Jonathan I. Ezor
General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
e. jezor@...








FROM: Otto Avila
DATE: Tue 10:44
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

There is a report of a smaller attack on Pennsylvania...


- Otto








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 10:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] If you need help...

Any new york people who are evacuated, unable to get home to 
brooklyn, queens, long island... or anything like that - if you can 
go WEST a long time...you can stay with us for a while here in bucks 
county...we can accommodate 8-10 people...
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin T. Focazio
Direct OFF-LIST Replies to: Martin@...
Martin T. Focazio LLC.
Executive Education, Management Consulting, Strategic Planning
610.847.1118 voice
mtfocazio AOL IM
focazio Yahoo Messenger








FROM: David Choi
DATE: Tue 10:43
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

thay have denied responsibility... so we have no idea.  a 747, or a
large plane has crashed in western pennsylvania.  and yet another
hijacked plane in the air right now.

-----Original Message-----
From: Pame McMahon <mailto:pame.mcmahon@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:53 AM
To: 'Wwwac '
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


well if we'd blow them up already this probably wouldn't have happened.

-----Original Message-----
From: daniel vena <mailto:daniel@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:42 AM
To: 'Wwwac '
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


correction, cbs is reporting the palestinian DFLP is taking
responsibility

--
_d.vena \\ www.vena.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Erlbaum" <jesse@...>
To: "'Wwwac '" <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No question about
it by
> his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible hijacking
shortly
> before the crashes.








FROM: Eric Swenson
DATE: Tue 10:40
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Everything's down from all reports and visuals. Towers = no more. Our
kids will watch Kojak reruns and everything will look the same. 

Hijacked plane on route to DC . Jets scrambled. What an ethical trip. To
blow up a hijacked plane or to let it crash into evacuated territory.

Not a good day to fly. Or to be an Arab cab driver.

Also, plane crash in Pittsburgh.

Good luck to everyone. I have many friends presumed probably dead. 

Go give blood!!!! NOW!!!!!

-- e. swenson

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Eric Swenson + Swensonia! 
P: 631 368 3917 + F: 631 980 4285
swenson@... + www.swensonia.com
AIM = swensonia + ICQ = 49568990




-----Original Message-----
From: mattjohnson@... <mailto:mattjohnson@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:40 AM
To: Priyamvada(Priya) Varadachary
Cc: wwwac@...
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


we've got a bunch of people on the 51st floor of on of 
them and word is they were all evacced successfully, so 
try to keep up hope
> 
> Does anyone know what floors Amex is on.
> My brother works there and I have no news.
> Any help appreciated.
> Thanks
> Priya
> 
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Chick Foxgrover wrote:
> 
> > Please continue any reports, I have no other connectivity at this 
> > time.








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 09:44
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

It so far from that simple.  Again, that will all come out later.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pame McMahon <mailto:pame.mcmahon@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:53 AM
> To: 'Wwwac '
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> well if we'd blow them up already this probably wouldn't have 
> happened.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: daniel vena <mailto:daniel@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:42 AM
> To: 'Wwwac '
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> correction, cbs is reporting the palestinian DFLP is taking 
> responsibility
> 
> --
> _d.vena \\ www.vena.net
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jesse Erlbaum" <jesse@...>
> To: "'Wwwac '" <wwwac@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:43 AM
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> > The president has called this a terrorist attack.  No 
> question about it by
> > his statement.  Reports are coming out about a possible 
> hijacking shortly
> > before the crashes.








FROM: Michael Estok
DATE: Tue 10:41
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

what? where?!?

-----Original Message-----
From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:45 AM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


There is a report of a smaller attack on Pennsylvania...


- Otto








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 10:46
SUBJ: [wwwac] If you need help...

In a message dated 9/11/01 10:44:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
wwwac@... writes:

<< wwwac@... >>

My prayers are with all.  Please dear god don't let there be anymore attacks.








FROM: l a u r a *^* l y n c h
DATE: Tue 10:47
SUBJ: [wwwac] Bitterness on the Web

At 04:42 PM 9/10/01, Beth wrote:
>hm, see this is ridiculous.  sure, it's *easier* to wade through snailmail
>than a pregnant-with-septuplets inbox, but what about the huge waste of
>paper?  for an under 1% success rate, that is a lot of resource use.

As someone who receives a *lot* of unsolicited 
flyers/brochures/postcards/catalogs from purveyors of products relating to 
my various hobbies, I have to disagree. While I have a few suppliers that I 
purchase the vast majority of my supplies from, I also have a huge file of 
flyers/postcards/brochures that I frequently go through looking for unique 
products, or better service, or whatever. UBE I just delete right off the bat.


l a u r a *^* l y n c h
design doyen @ cyberwhirled
http://www.cyberwhirled.com
ICQ: 1797450 AIM: cyberminkie








FROM: David Choi
DATE: Tue 10:47
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

80 southeast of pittsburgh

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Estok <mailto:MEstok@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:41 AM
To: 'kika@... wwwac@...
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


what? where?!?

-----Original Message-----
From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:45 AM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


There is a report of a smaller attack on Pennsylvania...


- Otto








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 10:47
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Penn crash (80 miles se of Pittsburg) is not clear if related to nyc/dc
stuff. Car bomb at State denied.

Otto Avila wrote:
> 
> There is a report of a smaller attack on Pennsylvania...
> 
> - Otto
> 








FROM: Joanna Wissinger
DATE: Tue 10:46
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

At 10:38 AM -0400 9/11/01, Priyamvada(Priya) Varadachary wrote:
>Does anyone know what floors Amex is on.
>My brother works there and I have no news.
>Any help appreciated.


I thought am ex was in the world financial center, not the twin 
towers. he is probably ok if he wasn't in the building or in the 
street.
-- 




Joanna Wissinger
c 917 407 6825 im joannawnyc web http://joannaw.com
content strategy/information architecture/competitive intelligence
what is "ubiquitous platforms"? find out at http://www.joannaw.com/ubiq








FROM: Joanna Wissinger
DATE: Tue 10:44
SUBJ: [wwwac] WTC info

At 10:35 AM -0400 9/11/01, Carole Filangieri wrote:
>First plane to hit towers was AA flight 11 from Boston to LA.



another big plane then. shit.
-- 




Joanna Wissinger
c 917 407 6825 im joannawnyc web http://joannaw.com
content strategy/information architecture/competitive intelligence
what is "ubiquitous platforms"? find out at http://www.joannaw.com/ubiq








FROM: David Choi
DATE: Tue 10:48
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

several, not just one plane, are unaccounted for and thought to be
hijacked flying in the air right now

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Estok <mailto:MEstok@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:41 AM
To: 'kika@... wwwac@...
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


what? where?!?

-----Original Message-----
From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:45 AM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


There is a report of a smaller attack on Pennsylvania...


- Otto








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 10:50
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

a 757 was hijacked out of Pittsburgh and has crashed,
I think...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Estok <mailto:MEstok@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:41 AM
> To: 'kika@... wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> what? where?!?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:45 AM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> There is a report of a smaller attack on Pennsylvania...
> 
> 
> - Otto








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 10:51
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

> thay have denied responsibility... 

That's because they know we'll smoke the asses
of whoever did this...I'm not usually like this 
but I really want revenge for this....








FROM: Sue K
DATE: Tue 10:43
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

now the UN's been evacuated.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Estok <mailto:MEstok@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:41 AM
> To: 'kika@... wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
> what? where?!?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:45 AM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
> There is a report of a smaller attack on Pennsylvania...
>
>
> - Otto








FROM: Otto Avila
DATE: Tue 10:55
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

60-foot section of the PENTAGON has collapsed.



 † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο †
 Otto Avila
 Web Designer & Site Builder
 http://www.ottostudio.com
 {718} 768-6383
 † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο †








FROM: Don McCormick
DATE: Tue 10:55
SUBJ: [wwwac] More hijacked planes in the air...

8 total hijacked, 5 still in the air.

 
/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
Don McCormick








FROM: Carole Filangieri
DATE: Tue 10:55
SUBJ: [wwwac] Five planes still unaccounted for

CNN is reporting that there were a total of 8 planes hijacked, that 
this was a coordinated effort by many terrorist groups including Bin 
Laden, in retaliation for US support of Israel.

cf
________________________________________
Allegra Media
http://www.allegramedia.com








FROM: Pame McMahon
DATE: Tue 11:06
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

I believe they are in the financial center. They may have offices in the WTC
but I'm not sure

-----Original Message-----
From: Joanna Wissinger <mailto:joanna@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:46 AM
To: Priyamvada(Priya) Varadachary; Chick Foxgrover
Cc: wwwac@...
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


At 10:38 AM -0400 9/11/01, Priyamvada(Priya) Varadachary wrote:
>Does anyone know what floors Amex is on.
>My brother works there and I have no news.
>Any help appreciated.


I thought am ex was in the world financial center, not the twin
towers. he is probably ok if he wasn't in the building or in the
street.
--




Joanna Wissinger
c 917 407 6825 im joannawnyc web http://joannaw.com
content strategy/information architecture/competitive intelligence
what is "ubiquitous platforms"? find out at http://www.joannaw.com/ubiq








FROM: carole guevin
DATE: Tue 10:54
SUBJ: [wwwac] What can WWWAC do to help?

excellent idea Jonathan,

I think it's important to keep relaying the news.  I have friends in NYC of
which I haven't heard of - some saying they have no phone lines or tv links
the only being their internet access for now.  So far all news relayed to
the wwwac are accurate though the car bombing is being denied and another
plane crash is reported around Pittsburgh PA - not confirmed if related or
not to early am  tradedies.  seems the CIA is moving all it's operations to
a secure place.  Manhattan is shutting down but most people are trapped in
the city since bridges, the metro are closed.  The Canadian/US border has
been closed as well.

I will relay other news.

carole guevin
 + concepts that talk + http://soulmedia.com
 + feed your eyes + http://netdiver.net
 + IDo + http://independentsday.org
 + think, dream, do + http://afterchaos.com

...<<the WEB is yet to come!>>...








FROM: Otto Avila
DATE: Tue 11:01
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

we should all make plans to visit our local clinics and hospitals to give
blood.



 † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο †
 Otto Avila
 Web Designer & Site Builder
 http://www.ottostudio.com
 {718} 768-6383
 † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο † ο †








FROM: Stephen Gilliard
DATE: Tue 08:01
SUBJ: [wwwac] Check in

Our site will be up and running as long as we have
some access to it. If you need to leave messages, tell
people you're OK, or post notices, please use our site
to do so. 

With the need to communicate and the possiblity of
e-mail systems and phone lines being overwhelmed with
users, a website might be a good place to let people
know you're OK. 

Of course, we'll be talking about this for the next
few days because there is nothing else to discuss. 

Keep the phones clear. The cells are down. If you can
get online, that might be the best way to communicate.

I'm sure other sites will open up for the same
purpose.
When they are, please let us know and we'll post
links.

If anyone has cable or DSL access, please let us know
so we can have someone monitoring the site 24/7 for
the next few days. 

Thank you for your cooperation. 

Steve Gilliard
Web Editor
NetSlaves

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Patricia Tagle
DATE: Tue 10:59
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

not confirmed .. on e plane crashed in Camp David

-----Original Message-----
From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:01 AM
To: wwwac@...
Cc: Amita Guha
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


we should all make plans to visit our local clinics and hospitals to =
give
blood.



 =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA
 Otto Avila
 Web Designer & Site Builder
 http://www.ottostudio.com
 {718} 768-6383
 =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA








FROM: Inthereal
DATE: Tue 10:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

non ny'er here.  is this anywhere near the location?

Cambridge University Press 
40 West 20th Street








FROM: Otto Avila
DATE: Tue 11:15
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

http://a188.g.akamaitech.net/f/188/920/1m/www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/articles/trade091101.htm




Tuesday, September 11, 2001; 10:55 a.m.

In a horrific sequence of destruction, terrorists crashed two planes into the
World Trade Center and the twin 110-story towers collapsed Tuesday morning.
Explosions also rocked the Pentagon and the State Department and spread fear
across the nation.

The fate of those in the twin skyscrapers was not immediately known.
Authorities had been trying to evacuate the 50,000 people who work in the twin
towers, but many were thought to be trapped.


In Washington, a plane crashed on the helicopter landing pad adjacent to the
Pentagon this morning, and there was an explosion at the Capitol Building, both
occurring less than an hour after two planes crashed into the World Trade
Center. There were no immediate reports of injury or damage at any of the
federal buildings in the Washington area.

Shortly after the explosion at the Capitol, the federal government ordered all
federal buildings in the Washington area closed down, according to the Office
of Personnel Management.

Within the hour, the federal government took the additional step of shutting
down national landmarks across the country, including the Washington Monument,
the Statue of Liberty and the St. Louis Gateway Arch, among other locations,
according to the National Park Service.

The Metro system remained open except for the Pentagon stop. Eyewitnesses
described rising smoke and floors buckling within the Pentagon and at the
building.

"We are across from the Pentagon. We are watching the smoke come across the
[Potomac] river right now," a receptionist at the National Park Service's
capital headquarters said.

In Pennsylvania, airport officials at Somerset County Airport reported a large
plane crashing just north of the Somerset County Airport, at about 10 a.m. The
plane, believed to be a Boeing 767, crashed about 8 miles east of Jennerstown,
according to county 911 dispatchers, WPXI-TV in Pittsburgh reported. The
airport is about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.

At about 10 a.m., one of the 110-story World Trade Center towers collapsed, and
the second tower collapsed about 30 minutes later.

The tragedies stunned the nation and prompted officials, fearing still more
attacks, to evacuate the Capitol, the White House, State Department and other
federal buildings. Flights were canceled at all major airports in the nation.

At about 10:20 a.m., the Associated Press reported the a car bomb explosion
outside the State Department, senior law enforceement officials said.

Shortly before the Pentagon fire ignited, President Bush called the New York
disasters "an apparent terrorist attack on our country." He hastily departed
from Florida, where he had scheduled an education speech, and returned to
Washington. Early details were sketchy, but the New York attacks seemed certain
to cause heavy losses of life and many injuries.

There were reports that an American Airlines 767 had been hijacked earlier
today on a scheduled flight from Boston to Los Angeles, and apparently was one
of the planes flown into the giant towers that dominate lower ManhattanΉs
skyline. The second crash, which touched off a giant fireball in one of the
towerΉs upper floors shortly after 9 a.m. EDT, took place as many Americans
watched live on television.

New York's airports were quickly closed, the New York Stock Exchange was
evacuated, and millions of Americans watched in horror and disbelief as news of
the Pentagon fire soon followed.

In Florida, Bush pledged to use "the full resources of the federal government
government to help the victims and their families" and "to hunt down and find
those folks who committed these acts."

<CENTER> © 2000 The Associated Press </CENTER></P>


- Otto








FROM: Wade Ryer
DATE: Tue 11:16
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

no, i heard it's just a rumor!

-----Original Message-----
From: Patricia Tagle <mailto:patricia@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:59 AM
To: 'kika@... wwwac@...
Cc: Amita Guha
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


not confirmed .. on e plane crashed in Camp David

-----Original Message-----
From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:01 AM
To: wwwac@...
Cc: Amita Guha
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


we should all make plans to visit our local clinics and hospitals to give
blood.



 † * † * † * † * † * † * † * † * †
 Otto Avila
 Web Designer & Site Builder
 http://www.ottostudio.com
 {718} 768-6383
 † * † * † * † * † * † * † * † * †








FROM: Jeremy Zevin
DATE: Tue 11:13
SUBJ: [wwwac] WTC images and more

I've put up some images that I've managed to get hold of:

http://www.jeremyzevin.com/wtc/








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 11:15
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Nope, that's safely away from the action,
although your friend/relative down there
will have a hard time getting home today if he/she
lives outside Manhattan....

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Inthereal <mailto:daddio@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:06 AM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> 
> non ny'er here.  is this anywhere near the location?
> 
> Cambridge University Press 
> 40 West 20th Street








FROM: Jonathan Ezor
DATE: Tue 11:10
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

Again in the "what can we do" department, I'm imagining that some WWWACies
may be stranded in Manhattan if the crossings remain closed.  Anyone have
some free beds or floor space to house folks?

-------------------
Jonathan I. Ezor
General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
e. jezor@...








FROM: Carole Filangieri
DATE: Tue 11:21
SUBJ: [wwwac] Give Blood

Bellevue Hospital is asking people to donate blood

Also call the American Red Cross
To donate blood:  1-800-Give-Life

NYC Red Cross Center
ARC in Greater New York
150 Amsterdam Ave
New York, NY 10023-5025
877-733-2767

How can I help out in a major disaster?
What is the time commitment required to volunteer?
What is the minimum age requirement to volunteer?
Are there internship opportunities available?
How do I start the process of becoming a volunteer?

Q. How can I help out in a major disaster?
A. Call 1-877-REDCROSS.

  Q. What is the time commitment required to volunteer?
A. Time commitments vary according the area in which you choose to volunteer.

Q. What is the minimum age requirement to volunteer?
A. The minimum age for volunteers at the American Red Cross in 
Greater New York is 14 years old.

  Q. Are there internship opportunities available?
A. There are internship opportunities available within the different 
service areas, particularly in administrative support.

  Q. How do I start the process of becoming a volunteer?
A. Call 1-877-REDCROSS.

________________________________________
Allegra Media
http://www.allegramedia.com








FROM: Don McCormick
DATE: Tue 11:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

I live in the Nyack area (North of Manhattan 15 miles, by the Tappanzee
Bridge). I can take in 6-8 (or more if necessary.)  Will do anything to
help.

Address and telephone below.

Thanks, [:-)on
 
/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
Don McCormick
Managing Partner
  
Allen Perri Design Group, Ltd.
23 Valenza Avenue
Blauvelt, NY 10913
Voice   (845) 680-0124
Fax:    (845) 398-3384
Email  don@...
 
Please visit us on the web at http://www.allenperri.com


On 9/11/01 11:10 AM, "Jonathan Ezor" <jezor@...> wrote:

> Again in the "what can we do" department, I'm imagining that some WWWACies
> may be stranded in Manhattan if the crossings remain closed.  Anyone have
> some free beds or floor space to house folks?
> 
> -------------------
> Jonathan I. Ezor
> General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
> T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
> e. jezor@...








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 11:24
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

Anyone know if hotels are doing anything to help?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Ezor <mailto:jezor@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:10 AM
> To: WWWAC list (E-mail)
> Subject: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?
>
>
> Again in the "what can we do" department, I'm imagining that some WWWACies
> may be stranded in Manhattan if the crossings remain closed.  Anyone have
> some free beds or floor space to house folks?
>
> -------------------
> Jonathan I. Ezor
> General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
> T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
> e. jezor@...








FROM: Carole Filangieri
DATE: Tue 11:25
SUBJ: [wwwac] 2 more planes missing

 From CBS:

AA has reported that they have lost contact with two more planes. The 
plane near camp david was forced down by USAF.
________________________________________
Allegra Media
http://www.allegramedia.com








FROM: Carole Filangieri
DATE: Tue 11:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] More blood donation centers

CitiCorp

Columbia-Presbyterian

All hospitals in the outer boroughs

cf

________________________________________
Allegra Media
http://www.allegramedia.com








FROM: Jonathan Ezor
DATE: Tue 11:20
SUBJ: [wwwac] American Airlines announcement--164 passengers on two hijacked planes

There's the first number.  164 passengers on the two hijacked planes.

-------------------
Jonathan I. Ezor
General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001 
e. jezor@...








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 11:24
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

A plane, a 7X7 class plane has been downed in Camp David.

Perhaps a 757?


At 11:16 AM -0400 09-11-2001, Wade Ryer wrote:
>no, i heard it's just a rumor!
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Patricia Tagle <mailto:patricia@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:59 AM
>To: 'kika@... wwwac@...
>Cc: Amita Guha
>Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
>not confirmed .. on e plane crashed in Camp David
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Otto Avila <mailto:kika@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:01 AM
>To: wwwac@...
>Cc: Amita Guha
>Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
>we should all make plans to visit our local clinics and hospitals to give
>blood.
>
>
>
>  =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA
>  Otto Avila
>  Web Designer & Site Builder
>  http://www.ottostudio.com
>  {718} 768-6383
>  =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA * =BA








FROM: Eileen 'Turtle' Parzek
DATE: Tue 11:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] WTC images and more

I put some up also for a friend of mine who is trapped at work and couldn't 
see it

http://www.turtlesweb.com/wtc/

the one of manhattan with the bright light  - thats not an explosion, thats 
me forgetting to turn off the flash

god, I hope this is over :(



At 11:13 AM 9/11/2001, Jeremy Zevin wrote:
>I've put up some images that I've managed to get hold of:
>
>http://www.jeremyzevin.com/wtc/
>
>
>

~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~
Eileen "Turtle" Parzek ~  phone~ 518-505-6617
http://www.turtlesweb.com  mailto:turtle@...
digital artist ~ information architect ~ project mgr ~ consultant








FROM: Steve Manes
DATE: Tue 11:30
SUBJ: [wwwac]  Holy Smoke

At 10:20 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>After this election I have zero faith in our government.  The supreme court
>decision, the admin refusing to reveal information on how they formulate
>policy... further back, not to say Dubya is a nazi sympathizer but his
>grandfather was to the tune of $50 million dollars.  The more I read about
>the Bush family and the current administration the more paranoid I become.

This is exactly what terrorists hope to accomplish with these 
things.  Don't lose your cool.


-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Carole Filangieri
DATE: Tue 11:30
SUBJ: [wwwac] Missing planes

United flight 93 from Newark to SF is listed as missing. AA will be 
holding a press conference after 11:30.

________________________________________
Allegra Media
http://www.allegramedia.com








FROM: Kathy Forer
DATE: Tue 11:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

At 10:08 AM -0400 9/11/01, Ari wrote:
>it's only war if we know who did it.

So much for star wars.

Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine ??? just claimed 
responsibility.

There's a blood shortage if you're near a hospital.








FROM: Jonathan Ezor
DATE: Tue 11:28
SUBJ: [wwwac] Pittsburgh crash--United 747 from Newark

CBS News is now reporting that the crash outside Pittsburgh was a United 747
from Newark.  {Jonathan}

-------------------
Jonathan I. Ezor
General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
e. jezor@...








FROM: Brigitte.Defoort@...
DATE: Tue 11:39
SUBJ: [wwwac] is it over.... ?


Brigitte Defoort 
Sr Recruiter


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.277 / Virus Database: 146 - Release Date: 9/5/01








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 10:37
SUBJ: [wwwac]  Holy Smoke


It's so hard to even grasp this - I'm worried about friends in the area
(Varick street) not to mention the thousands of people just passing
through. I've heard reports of people jumping from the towers..

I just cant get in the mindset of someone who would perpetrate such a
thing; hijacking planes full of people, families. I have a baby right
here, and you can mock, but I just can't think of how many families, loved
ones, children were affected. People that went on a nice vacation, only to
be forced to ram into a building...

I hear that there are still 5 hijacked planes that are still in the
air....there are fighter planes over Bergen County.

I don't understand the end result either, as this is just going to pull
America into a war.

I'm really praying for the people affected. 








FROM: Greg Creedon
DATE: Tue 11:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

fucking religion. it's going to kill us all.








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
DATE: Tue 11:40
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Not religious, racism


<<On 2001.09.11 11:38:47 -0400 Greg Creedon wrote:
fucking religion. it's going to kill us all.>>




-- 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: Jonathan Ezor
DATE: Tue 11:35
SUBJ: [wwwac] More on what you can do

The New York Blood Center has a Web site at <http://www.nybloodcenter.org>.
Go to your local center and help.  {Jonathan}








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 10:41
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


Just heard on cnn that someone came down from the 81st floor after the
first hit, was told that everything was ok and to return, so he left his
wife and went back up. Then the second plane hit.








FROM: Robin-David Hammond
DATE: Tue 06:41
SUBJ: [wwwac] YES | Re: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?


Spare room in manhattan:

email me.


robin-david hammond

my resume is hosted at web.bestweb.net/~muaddib/resume


 "One cannot guess the real difficulties of a problem before having solved it." 

-- Carl Ludwig Siegel


On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Jonathan Ezor wrote:

> To: "WWWAC list (E-mail)" <wwwac@...>
> Subject: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?
> 
> Again in the "what can we do" department, I'm imagining that some WWWACies
> may be stranded in Manhattan if the crossings remain closed.  Anyone have
> some free beds or floor space to house folks?
> 
> -------------------
> Jonathan I. Ezor
> General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
> T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
> e. jezor@...








FROM: Ari
DATE: Tue 11:44
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Kathy Forer wrote:

> At 10:08 AM -0400 9/11/01, Ari wrote:
> >it's only war if we know who did it.
> 
> So much for star wars.
> 
> Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine ??? just claimed 
> responsibility.

if this is true, any prospects for peace in the middle east have just
circled the bowl and went down the drain.

i'm also worried that this is only one aspect of the attack and that there
will be further incidents.

i predict marshall law or at least curfews in the city within 24hrs.








FROM: t r i n i t y
DATE: Tue 11:36
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

american airlines # to call
1.800.247.0999

sorry i didn't get the united one.

shannon
-- 
                      s h a n n o n   j o h n s o n
interface design \\ visual design //  info architecture
                           http://tulipfever.net








FROM: Stuff
DATE: Tue 16:47
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Fox News: Fires are spreading deeper into the Pentagon. We are now 
looking at a total loss.

g in london

-----Original Message-----
From: Ari <bongwater@...>
To: Kathy Forer <kef@...>
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:44:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

> 
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Kathy Forer wrote:
> 
> > At 10:08 AM -0400 9/11/01, Ari wrote:
> > >it's only war if we know who did it.
> > 
> > So much for star wars.
> > 
> > Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine ??? just claimed 
> > responsibility.
> 
> if this is true, any prospects for peace in the middle east have just
> circled the bowl and went down the drain.
> 
> i'm also worried that this is only one aspect of the attack and that
> there
> will be further incidents.
> 
> i predict marshall law or at least curfews in the city within 24hrs.








FROM: A. Michael Pruskowski
DATE: Tue 10:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

there is another bomb in styvusent high school downtown

A. Michael Pruskowski |  e] amp@... | p] 917.690.1421








FROM: Patricia Tagle
DATE: Tue 11:44
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Is this real?

-----Original Message-----
From: A. Michael Pruskowski <mailto:amp@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:49 AM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


there is another bomb in styvusent high school downtown

A. Michael Pruskowski |  e] amp@... | p] 917.690.1421








FROM: Stuff
DATE: Tue 16:50
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~agifford/wtc/

good picture, if there can be such a thing.

g in london

-----Original Message-----
From: "Stuff" <stuff@...>
To: "Ari" <bongwater@...>, "Kathy Forer" <kef@...>, "cb" 
<easteregg@...>, wwwac@...
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:47:20 +0100
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

> Fox News: Fires are spreading deeper into the Pentagon. We are now 
> looking at a total loss.
> 
> g in london
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ari <bongwater@...>
> To: Kathy Forer <kef@...>
> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:44:54 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
> 
> > 
> > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Kathy Forer wrote:
> > 
> > > At 10:08 AM -0400 9/11/01, Ari wrote:
> > > >it's only war if we know who did it.
> > > 
> > > So much for star wars.
> > > 
> > > Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine ??? just claimed 
> > > responsibility.
> > 
> > if this is true, any prospects for peace in the middle east have just
> > circled the bowl and went down the drain.
> > 
> > i'm also worried that this is only one aspect of the attack and that
> > there
> > will be further incidents.
> > 
> > i predict marshall law or at least curfews in the city within 24hrs.








FROM: Steve Manes
DATE: Tue 11:56
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

At 11:01 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>we should all make plans to visit our local clinics and hospitals to give
>blood.

I just dropped Karen off at Lutheran Hospital in Sunset Park, where she was 
assigned to ER.  Don't visit the hospitals, leastwise not the trauma 
centers.  They're jammed.  Lutheran was cordoned off by NYPD; it looked 
like they were setting up triosh(sp?) on the sidewalk out front.  The 
medical folks are overloaded.  The Red Cross will almost certainly set up 
blood centers elsewhere.  Stay tuned to the news for details.

-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Ezra Alexander
DATE: Tue 11:43
SUBJ: [wwwac]  Holy Smoke

You're right.  I'm being paranoid.  Let the enormity get to me.  Stunned.


on 9/11/01 11:30 AM, Steve Manes at smanes@... wrote:

> At 10:20 AM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>> After this election I have zero faith in our government.  The supreme court
>> decision, the admin refusing to reveal information on how they formulate
>> policy... further back, not to say Dubya is a nazi sympathizer but his
>> grandfather was to the tune of $50 million dollars.  The more I read about
>> the Bush family and the current administration the more paranoid I become.
> 
> This is exactly what terrorists hope to accomplish with these
> things.  Don't lose your cool.
> 
> 
> -----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
> Steve Manes
> Brooklyn, N'Yawk
> 
> 
> 

-- 

Ezra Alexander
founder | CTO
http://lucidCircus.com

v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067

"You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"








FROM: Ricky Bacon
DATE: Tue 11:56
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Look to the possibility that Afghanistan may soon be bombed.  Bin Laden has
been hiding there for a while now and the US has already warned their
government about retaliation if there were any more bombings against US
nationals (let alone attacks in the US).

Now I'm trying to remember what my brother (US Navy Intelligence, now
retired) told me about Afghanistan's nuclear capabilities.

Not being alarmist, just being realistic.

-Ricky

----- Original Message -----
From: Ari <bongwater@...>
To: Kathy Forer <kef@...>
Cc: cb <easteregg@...>; <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


>
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Kathy Forer wrote:
>
> > At 10:08 AM -0400 9/11/01, Ari wrote:
> > >it's only war if we know who did it.
> >
> > So much for star wars.
> >
> > Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine ??? just claimed
> > responsibility.
>
> if this is true, any prospects for peace in the middle east have just
> circled the bowl and went down the drain.
>
> i'm also worried that this is only one aspect of the attack and that there
> will be further incidents.
>
> i predict marshall law or at least curfews in the city within 24hrs.








FROM: Sue K
DATE: Tue 11:39
SUBJ: [wwwac] More blood donation centers

Citicorp blood center is closed today, open tomorrow.
NY Blood Center, 310 East 67th between 1st and 2nd, opens at 1 pm, taking
walk in donors today and tomorrow.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carole Filangieri <mailto:cfil@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:27 AM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] More blood donation centers
>
>
> CitiCorp
>
> Columbia-Presbyterian
>
> All hospitals in the outer boroughs
>
> cf
>
> ________________________________________
> Allegra Media
> http://www.allegramedia.com








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 11:58
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

> i'm also worried that this is only one aspect of the attack and that there
> will be further incidents.

I have a friend who works for the LAFD as a coordinator or something
and she writes this:

I just got into work and it's armaggedon. We
are on alert and everyone has been recalled. All the
chiefs are in a meeting and I think i'm being
reassigned to the emergency operations center. 








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 11:58
SUBJ: [wwwac] APwire:Plane Crashes South of Pittsburgh

This is off the ap wire.

Plane Crashes South of Pittsburgh 

 PITTSBURGH (AP) σ A large plane crashed Tuesday morning just north of
the Somerset County Airport, airport
 and county emergency officials said. 

 The plane, believed to be a 747 jumbo jet, crashed about 10 a.m. about
eight miles east of Jennerstown,
 according to county 911 dispatchers, WPXI-TV in Pittsburgh reported. 

 Officials weren't saying what airline was involved. It was unclear if
the crash was related to the terrorist attacks
 in New York City and Washington. 

 Sean Cavanaugh, a commissioner in neighboring Fayette County, said his
emergency management director,
 Barney Shipley, advised him that the plane originated in either
Cleveland or New York and was bound for
 Chicago, WPXI reported. 

 Contrary to earlier reports of the plane being a 767, Cavanaugh said he
was told the airplane was a Boeing
 747, the largest passenger jet flown domestically. 

 The Somerset County airport, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, in
a small, rural facility that does not
 handle such aircraft. 

 Because of the attacks, the Federal Aviation Administration had ordered
all departing flights canceled
 nationwide, and any planes already in the air were to land a the
nearest airport. The plane crashed shortly
 after the order was issued. 

 It was not immediately known if the 747 might have been trying to land
at the Somerset County airport when
 the crash occurred. 

 The crash came the same morning that terrorists crashed two planes into
the World Trade Center in New York
 City and the twin 110-story towers collapsed. Explosions also rocked
the Pentagon and the State Department
 and spread fear across the nation. 

 There were no other immediate details on the Pennsylvania crash.








FROM: Amal ElSheemy
DATE: Tue 08:59
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

stop spreading rumors.. there are no bombs in styvusant hs..

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:49:02 -0500 (CDT), A. Michael Pruskowski wrote:

  there is another bomb in styvusent high school downtown
  
  A. Michael Pruskowski |  e] amp@... | p] 917.690.1421
_______________________________________________________
http://inbox.excite.com








FROM: Steve Manes
DATE: Tue 12:03
SUBJ: [wwwac] Primary day

Today is also a very big primary day for NYC.  Has there been any mention 
about rescheduling the election?
-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: t r i n i t y
DATE: Tue 11:52
SUBJ: [wwwac] Primary day

yes.  the elections are cancelled, .. they just cancelled everything 
upstate as well (albany).
no word on rescheduling.
s

At 12:03 PM -0400 9/11/01, Steve Manes wrote:
>Today is also a very big primary day for NYC.  Has there been any 
>mention about rescheduling the election?
>-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
>Steve Manes
>Brooklyn, N'Yawk
>
>
>

-- 
                      s h a n n o n   j o h n s o n
interface design \\ visual design //  info architecture
                           http://tulipfever.net








FROM: Jonathan Ezor
DATE: Tue 11:56
SUBJ: [wwwac] Primary day

Elections have been postponed.

-------------------
Jonathan I. Ezor
General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
e. jezor@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Manes <mailto:smanes@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:04 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] Primary day


Today is also a very big primary day for NYC.  Has there been any mention
about rescheduling the election?
-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Druce Vertes
DATE: Tue 12:04
SUBJ: [wwwac] APwire:Plane Crashes South of Pittsburgh

TkJDIHJlcG9ydGVkIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgZmxpZ2h0IG51bWJlcnMgLSANCg0KQW1lcmljYW4g
ZmxpZ2h0IDExIEJvc3Rvbi1MQSwgYSA3NjcsIDkyIHJlcG9ydGVkIGFib2FyZCAtIGJlbGlldmVk
IHRvIGhhdmUgY3Jhc2hlZCBpbnRvIFdUQw0KVW5pdGVkIGZsaWdodCAxNzUgcmVwb3J0ZWQgaGlq
YWNrZWQgZnJvbSBCb3N0b24sIGFsc28gdG8gTEEgLSBiZWxpZXZlZCB0byBoYXZlIGNyYXNoZWQg
aW50byBXVEMNCkFtZXJpY2FuIGZsaWdodCA3NyA3NTcgRHVsbGVzIHRvIExBLCA2NCByZXBvcnRl
ZCBhYm9hcmQgLSBiZWxpZXZlZCB0byBoYXZlIGNyYXNoZWQgaW50byBQZW50YWdvbg0KVW5pdGVk
IGZsaWdodCA5MyAtIE5ld2FyayB0byBXYXNoaW5ndG9uIE5hdGlvbmFsIGFuZCB0byBTRiAtIGJl
bGlldmVkIGRvd24gbmVhciBQaXR0c2J1cmdoDQoNCg0KID4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdl
LS0tLS0NCiA+IEZyb206IEtOT2RvbSBbbWFpbHRvOmtub2RvbUBzaGFrZXNjZW5lLmNvbV0NCiA+
IFNlbnQ6IFR1ZXNkYXksIFNlcHRlbWJlciAxMSwgMjAwMSAxMTo1OSBBTQ0KID4gVG86IHdoYWNr
DQogPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBbd3d3YWNdIEFQd2lyZTpQbGFuZSBDcmFzaGVzIFNvdXRoIG9mIFBpdHRz
YnVyZ2gNCiA+IA0KID4gDQogPiBUaGlzIGlzIG9mZiB0aGUgYXAgd2lyZS4NCiA+IA0KID4gUGxh
bmUgQ3Jhc2hlcyBTb3V0aCBvZiBQaXR0c2J1cmdoIA0K








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 12:03
SUBJ: [wwwac] Primary day

All I've heard for now is that it's cancelled
for today....

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Manes <mailto:smanes@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:04 PM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] Primary day
>
>
> Today is also a very big primary day for NYC.  Has there been any mention
> about rescheduling the election?
> -----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
> Steve Manes
> Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Oliver Demasis
DATE: Tue 12:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] Primary day

Yes, they have officially announced that it will be rescheduled.

	- Oliver

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Manes <mailto:smanes@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:04 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] Primary day


Today is also a very big primary day for NYC.  Has there been any mention
about rescheduling the election?
-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Druce Vertes
DATE: Tue 12:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] Primary day
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FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 12:07
SUBJ: [wwwac] Primary day

the election has been postponed until further notice.

At 12:03 PM -0400 09-11-2001, Steve Manes wrote:
>Today is also a very big primary day for NYC.  Has there been any 
>mention about rescheduling the election?
>-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
>Steve Manes
>Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Stephen Gilliard
DATE: Tue 09:09
SUBJ: [wwwac] Election Day has been postponed

The NY Board of Elections has posponed the NY Primary
until a later date. There is NO VOTING today. 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Elliotte Rusty Harold
DATE: Tue 12:02
SUBJ: [wwwac] Primary day

At 12:03 PM -0400 9/11/01, Steve Manes wrote:
>Today is also a very big primary day for NYC.  Has there been any 
>mention about rescheduling the election?

It's postponed. Not sure till when yet or what happens if you already 
voted early.
-- 
+-----------------------+------------------------+-------------------+
| Elliotte Rusty Harold | elharo@... | Writer/Programmer |
+-----------------------+------------------------+-------------------+
|         XML in a Nutshell (O'Reilly & Associates, 2001)            |
|              http://www.ibiblio.org/xml/books/xian/                |
|   http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0596000588/cafeaulaitA/   |
+----------------------------------+---------------------------------+
|  Read Cafe au Lait for Java News:  http://metalab.unc.edu/javafaq/ |
|  Read Cafe con Leche for XML News: http://metalab.unc.edu/xml/     |
+----------------------------------+---------------------------------+








FROM: erik bryan slavin
DATE: Tue 12:11
SUBJ: [wwwac] Spare room

If anyone is stranded. I have a place on 11th st and 6th with a 
coupla extra futons.

I'm at the hospital volunteering. Back after 6. If I'm not at the 
number below, call my cell if it works the number's 917 749 2828.

-- 


Erik Bryan Slavin
erikb@...
(212) 924 2588
;-{)-








FROM: David Choi
DATE: Tue 12:13
SUBJ: [wwwac] Primary day

yet another plane crash... AP hasn't reported where yet.

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin T. Focazio <mailto:wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:07 PM
To: Steve Manes; wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Primary day


the election has been postponed until further notice.

At 12:03 PM -0400 09-11-2001, Steve Manes wrote:
>Today is also a very big primary day for NYC.  Has there been any=20
>mention about rescheduling the election?
>-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=3Do&>o-------
>Steve Manes
>Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: alex valich
DATE: Tue 12:08
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

This is the most shoking thing I have seen in my life. I really don't know
what to say except that...



>stop spreading rumors.. there are no bombs in styvusant hs..
>
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:49:02 -0500 (CDT), A. Michael Pruskowski wrote:
>
>  there is another bomb in styvusent high school downtown
>
>  A. Michael Pruskowski |  e] amp@... | p] 917.690.1421
>_______________________________________________________
>http://inbox.excite.com
>
>
>
>
:::::::::::::::::::::::::Alex Valich :::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::e: alex@... ::::::::::::
:w: http://www.redstr.com ::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::p: 718.422.7761 ::::::::::::








FROM: Lynne d Johnson
DATE: Tue 12:17
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

--MS_Mac_OE_3083055423_372871_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit


----------
From: Lynne d Johnson <lynnedjohnson@...>
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:11:35 -0400
To: <wwwac@...>
Subject: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


I saw everything from my Brooklyn apartment it was unbelievable. I was in
the street awhile ago and traffic is backed up in Brooklyn. Folks are
walking across the Brooklyn Bridge. Many of them with ash in their hair and
on their clothes. I am just now beginning to smell it through my window.
Until now, there was no odor. This is so surreal.
--
Lynne d Johnson   
lynnedjohnson@...
music/ culture/ technology
http://go.to/LynnedJohnson

"Rap music is a technologically sophisticated and complex urban sound."
--Tricia Rose, Black Noise

--MS_Mac_OE_3083055423_372871_MIME_Part--








FROM: Scott Rompala
DATE: Tue 12:18
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

MSNBC showed that there was/is.

-s

At 08:59 AM 9/11/01 -0700, Amal ElSheemy wrote:
>stop spreading rumors.. there are no bombs in styvusant hs..
>
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:49:02 -0500 (CDT), A. Michael Pruskowski wrote:
>
>   there is another bomb in styvusent high school downtown
>
>   A. Michael Pruskowski |  e] amp@... | p] 917.690.1421
>_______________________________________________________
>http://inbox.excite.com








FROM: Andy Alpern
DATE: Tue 12:24
SUBJ: [wwwac] World Trade Center Bombing Bulletin Board


Greetings,
 Most Americans haven't experienced teror on their own soil. I have set up a
message board where people can post their thoughts feelings and opinions.

goto:
http://golemproductions.com/wwwboard/index.htm

pics are at

www.golemproductions.com/wt

I am still trying to Locate Dahlia Lahiji!

Andy Alpern
President, Golem Productions
alps@...

  Golem Productions
"We Bring Things to Life!"
    (212) 330-8166








FROM: lukebela dohnersilva
DATE: Tue 09:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

If someone is stuck in Manhattan I can put together some space at 
Rivington and Allen.
212 777 3085
Luke



--- Jonathan Ezor <jezor@...> wrote:
> Again in the "what can we do" department, I'm imagining that some
> WWWACies
> may be stranded in Manhattan if the crossings remain closed.  Anyone
> have
> some free beds or floor space to house folks?
> 
> -------------------
> Jonathan I. Ezor
> General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
> T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
> e. jezor@...
> 
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Andrew Gideon
DATE: Tue 12:28
SUBJ: [wwwac] Bombs other places?

I've received an unconfirmed and second hand report 
(from someone that is married to someone in the NYFD)
that there is at least one bomb being defused in an
NYC tunnel.

	- Andrew








FROM: lukebela dohnersilva
DATE: Tue 09:28
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

If someone is stuck in Manhattan I can put together some space at 
Rivington and Allen.
212 777 3085
Luke



--- Jonathan Ezor <jezor@...> wrote:
> Again in the "what can we do" department, I'm imagining that some
> WWWACies
> may be stranded in Manhattan if the crossings remain closed.  Anyone
> have
> some free beds or floor space to house folks?
> 
> -------------------
> Jonathan I. Ezor
> General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
> T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
> e. jezor@...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Ezra Alexander
DATE: Tue 12:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

I imagine there must be NY'ers stuck in Philly.  I'll be at the office for a
little while longer, feel free to contact me if there is anything I can do
here in Philadelphia.


--
Ezra Alexander
founder | CTO
http://lucidCircus.com

v: 215-717-0333 | f: 215-717-0335
aim: lucidEZRA  | icq: #41098067

"You Freaks Belong in the Circus!"








FROM: Jonathan Ezor
DATE: Tue 12:28
SUBJ: [wwwac] Next suggestion--Is it practical to set up a missing person list online?

I wonder if there's any practical way of setting up a quick and easy form
online, on a Web site with a fair amount of bandwidth, where people can ask
about (or provide answers about) particular people who may have been working
in or near the Trade Centers.  Any ideas?

-------------------
Jonathan I. Ezor
General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
e. jezor@...








FROM: Priyamvada(Priya) Varadachary
DATE: Tue 12:33
SUBJ: [wwwac] World Trade Center Bombing Bulletin Board

Just heard from my brother. He had a meeting in Brooklyn and did not go
in. He is safe.
Thank you for all your thoughts and prayers.

I am going to go give blood to try and help somehow. I am very sad.

Priya

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Andy Alpern wrote:

> 
> Greetings,
>  Most Americans haven't experienced teror on their own soil. I have set up a
> message board where people can post their thoughts feelings and opinions.
> 
> goto:
> http://golemproductions.com/wwwboard/index.htm
> 
> pics are at
> 
> www.golemproductions.com/wt
> 
> I am still trying to Locate Dahlia Lahiji!
> 
> Andy Alpern
> President, Golem Productions
> alps@...
> 
>   Golem Productions
> "We Bring Things to Life!"
>     (212) 330-8166








FROM: t r i n i t y
DATE: Tue 12:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] airline #'s (correction)

information on the flights...

american
1.800.245.0999

united
1.800.932.8555
-- 


      <<<<<  www.contrition.net  >>>>>
  mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

   Quare, quicquid in tibi animo est,
   Affectus germanos dice,
   Sed clemente, clemente, Carissima mea,
   Responde mihi quam clementissime possis








FROM: Jonathan Kopp
DATE: Tue 11:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] For parents and teachers

Advice for parents for helping their children cope with tragedy.
Originally published after Columbine:
http://www.sesameworkshop.org/parents/advice/article/0,4125,49560,00.html


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: carole guevin
DATE: Tue 12:36
SUBJ: [wwwac] room to spares info as of 12:30pm + giving blood info

Here's a collated mail of rooms for shelter:

-- If someone is stuck in Manhattan I can put together some space at
Rivington and Allen. 212 777 3085. Luke

-- If anyone is stranded. I have a place on 11th st and 6th with a coupla
extra futons.  I'm at the hospital volunteering. Back after 6. If I'm not at
the number below, call my cell if it works the number's 917 749 2828.  Erik
Bryan Slavin - erikb@...
(212) 924 2588

-- I live in the Nyack area (North of Manhattan 15 miles, by the Tappanzee
Bridge). I can take in 6-8 (or more if necessary.)  Will do anything to
help.  Address and telephone below. Don McCormick, Allen Perri Design Group,
Ltd. 23 Valenza Avenue
Blauvelt, NY 10913, Voice   (845) 680-0124, Fax:    (845) 398-3384, Email
don@...

++++++++++++++++++

Also call the American Red Cross
To donate blood:  1-800-Give-Life

NYC Red Cross Center
ARC in Greater New York
150 Amsterdam Ave
New York, NY 10023-5025
877-733-2767

The New York Blood Center has a Web site - http://www.nybloodcenter.org

.c








FROM: carole guevin
DATE: Tue 12:41
SUBJ: [wwwac] Next suggestion--Is it practical to set up a missing person list online?

> I wonder if there's any practical way of setting up a quick and easy form
> online, on a Web site with a fair amount of bandwidth, where
> people can ask

this is an excellent idea.  here is what I did since our website is visited
from around the world.  I've posted info concerning the Red Cross.  Also
have sent the same messages to my elist.  I suggest when feasible to relay
info as we get them.

+++++++++++++++++++

There has a massive tragedy that happened in NYC this am and also in
Washington.  Reports of telephone lines are not available in NYC.  If you
need help - please try to get in touch with RED CROSS to donate blood and
shelter people who will need it.  All airports both in the USA and Canada
are shutdown.

The New York Blood Center has a Web site at <http://www.nybloodcenter.org>.

Also call the American Red Cross
To donate blood:  1-800-Give-Life

NYC Red Cross Center
ARC in Greater New York
150 Amsterdam Ave
New York, NY 10023-5025
877-733-2767

.c








FROM: Sue K
DATE: Tue 11:54
SUBJ: [wwwac] is it over.... ?

Probably not.  NATO chief commander says we should expect more.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brigitte.Defoort@... <mailto:bde@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:40 AM
> To: wwwaclistsorg
> Subject: [wwwac] is it over.... ?
> Importance: High
> 
> 
> 
> Brigitte Defoort 
> Sr Recruiter
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.277 / Virus Database: 146 - Release Date: 9/5/01








FROM: Andrew Gideon
DATE: Tue 12:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] Some people are getting out of the city to the north

I just heard from a friend that lives just a little south of
Canal in NYC.  Shortly after the seriousness of the situation
became apparent, they headed north.  

They got over the hudson either at the TZ of that bridge further
north.

So some people are getting out of the city.

	- Andrew








FROM: BJ Weschke
DATE: Tue 12:51
SUBJ: [wwwac] Some people are getting out of the city to the north


 Circle line ferry is now free going from 42nd street terminal over to NJ.

---
BJ Weschke
Chief Information Officer
Executive Conference, Inc. 
p: 973-890-8143
f: 973-237-3514



-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Gideon <mailto:ag797@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:50 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] Some people are getting out of the city to the north


I just heard from a friend that lives just a little south of
Canal in NYC.  Shortly after the seriousness of the situation
became apparent, they headed north.  

They got over the hudson either at the TZ of that bridge further
north.

So some people are getting out of the city.

	- Andrew








FROM: laurie kilmartin
DATE: Tue 12:54
SUBJ: [wwwac] blood UWS

Is anyone on the UWS? Where can one give blood up here? (I'm not getting on
a subway today).



Laurie Kilmartin
http://www.kilmartin.com 








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 12:54
SUBJ: [wwwac] Next suggestion--Is it practical to set up a missing
 person list online?

We're working on that with Ham radio operators right now.  It's hard 
to connect to the Internet from NYC now, so we're working on a relay 
system for information.




At 12:28 PM -0400 09-11-2001, Jonathan Ezor wrote:
>I wonder if there's any practical way of setting up a quick and easy form
>online, on a Web site with a fair amount of bandwidth, where people can ask
>about (or provide answers about) particular people who may have been working
>in or near the Trade Centers.  Any ideas?
>
>-------------------
>Jonathan I. Ezor
>General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
>T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
>e. jezor@...








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 12:59
SUBJ: [wwwac] Some people are getting out of the city to the north

According to Gov. Pataki, the PATH trains are running to 33rd Street and to
Newark and so people can take that to get to NJ if they wish. All subways
are running outside of Manhattan, but in Manhattan only the A train is
running. Mayor Guiliani recommended that most people walk to where they need
to go, if they can, for now.

~Jessica

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BJ Weschke <mailto:BWeschke@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:51 PM
> To: 'Andrew Gideon'; wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Some people are getting out of the city to the
> north
>
>
>
>  Circle line ferry is now free going from 42nd street terminal over to NJ.
>
> ---
> BJ Weschke
> Chief Information Officer
> Executive Conference, Inc.
> p: 973-890-8143
> f: 973-237-3514
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Gideon <mailto:ag797@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:50 PM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] Some people are getting out of the city to the north
>
>
> I just heard from a friend that lives just a little south of
> Canal in NYC.  Shortly after the seriousness of the situation
> became apparent, they headed north.
>
> They got over the hudson either at the TZ of that bridge further
> north.
>
> So some people are getting out of the city.
>
> 	- Andrew








FROM: Andrew Gideon
DATE: Tue 16:59
SUBJ: [wwwac] is it over.... ?

One way or another, it will never be over.  Just as
Perl Harbor changed our way of seeing our place in 
the world, so will this.

	- Andrew








FROM: John A. Federico
DATE: Tue 13:04
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

Ditto here. We're in Maplewood, NJ.

-jf.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Don McCormick <mailto:don@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:22 AM
>To: jezor@... WWWAC list (E-mail)
>Subject: Re: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?
>
>
>I live in the Nyack area (North of Manhattan 15 miles, by the Tappanzee
>Bridge). I can take in 6-8 (or more if necessary.)  Will do anything to
>help.
>
>Address and telephone below.
>
>Thanks, [:-)on
>
>/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
>Don McCormick
>Managing Partner
>
>Allen Perri Design Group, Ltd.
>23 Valenza Avenue
>Blauvelt, NY 10913
>Voice   (845) 680-0124
>Fax:    (845) 398-3384
>Email  don@...
>
>Please visit us on the web at http://www.allenperri.com
>
>
>On 9/11/01 11:10 AM, "Jonathan Ezor" <jezor@...> wrote:
>
>> Again in the "what can we do" department, I'm imagining that
>some WWWACies
>> may be stranded in Manhattan if the crossings remain closed.  Anyone have
>> some free beds or floor space to house folks?
>>
>> -------------------
>> Jonathan I. Ezor
>> General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
>> T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
>> e. jezor@...








FROM: Andrew Raff
DATE: Tue 13:01
SUBJ: [wwwac] blood UWS

on 9/11/01 12:54 PM, laurie kilmartin at laurie@... wrote:

> Is anyone on the UWS? Where can one give blood up here? (I'm not getting on
> a subway today).

The Red Cross on Amsterdam and 66th. 








FROM: hens
DATE: Tue 13:02
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

First estimate death toll: 10,000

Likely to go up.

Unbelievable








FROM: Kim B. Foglia
DATE: Tue 13:03
SUBJ: [wwwac] donate blood!

The American Red Cross has put a call out for blood donation.


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://ww
592ltcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: Kim Moser
DATE: Tue 13:08
SUBJ: [wwwac] Next suggestion--Is it practical to set up a
  missing person list online?

I'm in FL, and people in NYC have been unable to call me but I've been 
pretty successful in making calls to NYC.

If you're trying to reach somebody in NYC and can't, feel free to email me 
a message and I'll try to reach them from here on your behalf.

--K

At 12:54 PM 9/11/01 -0400, "Martin T. Focazio" <wwwac@...> wrote:
>We're working on that with Ham radio operators right now.  It's hard to 
>connect to the Internet from NYC now, so we're working on a relay system 
>for information.
>
>At 12:28 PM -0400 09-11-2001, Jonathan Ezor wrote:
>>I wonder if there's any practical way of setting up a quick and easy form
>>online, on a Web site with a fair amount of bandwidth, where people can ask
>>about (or provide answers about) particular people who may have been working
>>in or near the Trade Centers.  Any ideas?








FROM: Kim B. Foglia
DATE: Tue 13:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] Is LIRR running out of NYC??

My husband is stuck at NYU.


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://www.galtcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: Otto Avila
DATE: Tue 13:12
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/mmedia/msnbc/ms091101-4v.htm
horrifying video of the towers collapsing


otto








FROM: metrocake
DATE: Tue 10:11
SUBJ: [wwwac] Is LIRR running out of NYC??

Kim,

No:
http://www.lirr.org/emergency/emerlirr.htm

My train was turned back at the tunnel this morning,
literally minutes before it would have gone in to NYC.

-- roe


--- "Kim B. Foglia" <wwwac@...> wrote:
> My husband is stuck at NYU.
> 
> 
> Kim B. Foglia
> Chief Creative Officer
> Galt Corporation
> http://www.galtcorporation.com
> 631.756.0200 x204 voice
> 631.756.0789 fax


=====
* m e t r o c a k e * -- we put the "fun" in "dysfunctional"
http://www.metrocake.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Scott Wickham
DATE: Tue 10:12
SUBJ: [wwwac] The red cross is asking for blood

Just got an IM. Don't know details about  where. But
if anyone else does please post.


http://www.redcross.org/


https://www.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.asp




god i am checking email to find out for freinds and
the SPAM still comes.

fucked up day people.





=====
Scott Wickham

74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt 
Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com    
for Sale by owner

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Oliver Demasis
DATE: Tue 13:14
SUBJ: [wwwac] Is LIRR running out of NYC??

No. They are shut down ...


http://www.lirr.org/emergency/emerlirr.htm

	- Oliver


-----Original Message-----
From: Kim B. Foglia <mailto:wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:06 PM
To: WWWAC list
Subject: [wwwac] Is LIRR running out of NYC??


My husband is stuck at NYU.


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://www.galtcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: metrocake
DATE: Tue 10:13
SUBJ: [wwwac] "Okay" page

Everyone,

Bill Shunn has started a check-in page for NYC/DC
people at
http://www.shunn.net/okay/ in case you want to sign it
and circulate 
it.


-- roe 
 


=====
* m e t r o c a k e * -- we put the "fun" in "dysfunctional"
http://www.metrocake.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: laurie kilmartin
DATE: Tue 13:15
SUBJ: [wwwac] blood UWS

Great- thanks Andrew
--





Laurie Kilmartin
http://www.kilmartin.com

> From: Andrew Raff <wwwac@...>
> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:01:14 -0400
> To: laurie kilmartin <laurie@...>, <wwwac@...>
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] blood UWS
> 
> on 9/11/01 12:54 PM, laurie kilmartin at laurie@... wrote:
> 
>> Is anyone on the UWS? Where can one give blood up here? (I'm not getting on
>> a subway today).
> 
> The Red Cross on Amsterdam and 66th.








FROM: David Honigsberg
DATE: Tue 13:06
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

Don, is the bridge open up there?  I've got a couple of friends in from
Canada and, unless they never come back from the walk they went on a while
ago, they're going to need to know that. (since I live just north of the
GWB).

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don McCormick <mailto:don@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:22 AM
> To: jezor@... WWWAC list (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?
>
>
> I live in the Nyack area (North of Manhattan 15 miles, by the
> Tappanzee
> Bridge). I can take in 6-8 (or more if necessary.)  Will do
> anything to
> help.
>
> Address and telephone below.
>
> Thanks, [:-)on
>
> /:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\:\/:\/:\/:\
> Don McCormick
> Managing Partner
>
> Allen Perri Design Group, Ltd.
> 23 Valenza Avenue
> Blauvelt, NY 10913
> Voice   (845) 680-0124
> Fax:    (845) 398-3384
> Email  don@...
>
> Please visit us on the web at http://www.allenperri.com
>
>
> On 9/11/01 11:10 AM, "Jonathan Ezor" <jezor@...> wrote:
>
> > Again in the "what can we do" department, I'm imagining
> that some WWWACies
> > may be stranded in Manhattan if the crossings remain
> closed.  Anyone have
> > some free beds or floor space to house folks?
> >
> > -------------------
> > Jonathan I. Ezor
> > General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
> > T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
> > e. jezor@...








FROM: Marc Shifflett
DATE: Tue 13:27
SUBJ: [wwwac] blood UWS



Any blood centers on the Upper East Side?

Marc Shifflett

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

1257 Park Avenue #4S      212 860-0593 (studio)     
New York, NY 10029        212 988-3757 (fax)
marc@...            








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 12:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] LIRR

	
Just announced on fox  that it's resuming limited routes from Penn.








FROM: Joanna Wissinger
DATE: Tue 12:59
SUBJ: [wwwac] local hospitals accepting blood donations

--============_-1211894861==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

from the times

September 11, 2001

Local Hospitals Accepting Blood Donations

the following New York City hospitals are accepting blood donations:

Borough	Hospital	Address	Phone
Manhattan	St. Clare's Hospital & Health Center	426 W. 52nd 
St.	212-586-1500
Manhattan	St. Vincent's Hospital & Medical Center	7th Ave. at 
11th St.	212-604-7000
Brooklyn	St. Mary's Hospital	170 Buffalo Ave.	718-221-3000
Queens- Flushing	St. Joseph's Hospital	15840 79th Ave.	718-558-6200
Queens- Jamaica	St. Vincent's Medical Center of Richmond	355 
Bard Ave.	718-876-1234
Staten Island	Mary Immaculate Hospital	15211 89th Ave.	718-558-2000
-- 




Joanna Wissinger
c 917 407 6825 im joannawnyc web http://joannaw.com
content strategy/information architecture/competitive intelligence
what is "ubiquitous platforms"? find out at http://www.joannaw.com/ubiq
--============_-1211894861==_ma============--








FROM: laurie kilmartin
DATE: Tue 13:25
SUBJ: [wwwac] blood UWS

Is there any possibility that this was a domestic attack?  The Oklahoma
bombing was first thought to be an outside attack, after all.

Laurie








FROM: Steve Manes
DATE: Tue 13:32
SUBJ: [wwwac] Bombs other places?

At 12:28 PM 9/11/01 -0400, Andrew Gideon wrote:
>I've received an unconfirmed and second hand report
>(from someone that is married to someone in the NYFD)
>that there is at least one bomb being defused in an
>NYC tunnel.

I think you've gotta shift the bullshit filter to high gear at times like 
this.  The rumor mill works overtime in times of disaster.  What I didn't 
say in my last post, for exactly this reason, is my NYPD buddy who's 
supervising security at one of the PD command centers, asked me if it was 
true that one of the four missing planes was heading for NYC.  Obviously it 
wasn't, but he was certainly in a better "official" position than me to know.

Karen forgot her blood sugar testing kit (she's diabetic) so I just got 
back from pedaling it over to Lutheran.  It looks even more like a war zone 
over there.  There were at least twenty surgeons in scrubs on the sidewalk 
receiving ambulances.  Lotsa NYPD victims, probably those doing security 
under the towers when they fell.  The 59th St Pier at BAT is being used as 
a staging area for triage (thanks for the spelling corrections, folks) as 
they bring victims across the river.  Anyway, as soon as I pedaled up she 
told me that cops were telling her that a NJ bridge and NYU Med Center was 
bombed... neither of which, as far as I know, is true.

It was real strange pedaling up 2nd Ave in Brooklyn and not seeing the twin 
towers there. Very eery.

-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Steve Manes
DATE: Tue 13:34
SUBJ: [wwwac] local hospitals accepting blood donations

At 12:59 PM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Borough Hospital        Address Phone
>Manhattan       St. Clare's Hospital & Health Center    426 W. 52nd St. 
>212-586-1500
>Manhattan       St. Vincent's Hospital & Medical Center 7th Ave. at 11th 
>St.    212-604-7000
>Brooklyn        St. Mary's Hospital     170 Buffalo Ave.        718-221-3000
>Queens- Flushing        St. Joseph's Hospital   15840 79th Ave. 718-558-6200
>Queens- Jamaica St. Vincent's Medical Center of Richmond        355 Bard 
>Ave.   718-876-1234
>Staten Island   Mary Immaculate Hospital        15211 89th Ave. 718-558-2000

Maimonodes on Fifth Ave in Brooklyn is also accepting blood donors now.
-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Nomad Media Lab
DATE: Tue 13:35
SUBJ: [wwwac] blood UWS



I think that this happening on election day is odd. Makes me wonder if
those responsible are more likely to be friends of Tim McVeigh then
Bin-Ladden.

--Eric

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, laurie kilmartin wrote:

> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:25:14 -0400
> From: laurie kilmartin <laurie@...>
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] blood UWS
>
> Is there any possibility that this was a domestic attack?  The Oklahoma
> bombing was first thought to be an outside attack, after all.
>
> Laurie



---------------------------------
Nomad Media Lab
design + technology consulting
http://www.nomadlab.com








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 12:34
SUBJ: [wwwac] blood UWS


Doubt it. 

first off, 3 weeks ago in a palestinian newspaper, an editor claimed that
there would be such an attack on the us, the depth of whicch had not been
seen yet. Also, the cheering and the giving out of candy in good old
Arafat's hometown.

God. On fox they just showed a poor soul hanging from the wtc, waving
frantically for help from the fire one floor above him. He finally jumped,
probably to his death.

This could have been any of us. I believe in the sanctitiy of life, and
would never go to war, but I think that's where we're headed.

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, laurie kilmartin wrote:

> Is there any possibility that this was a domestic attack?  The Oklahoma
> bombing was first thought to be an outside attack, after all.
> 
> Laurie








FROM: Jonathan Hamel
DATE: Tue 10:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] OK person list online?

Bill Shunn has set up an "OK person list" at www.shunn.net/okay.

--- carole guevin <carole@...> wrote:
> > I wonder if there's any practical way of setting up a quick and easy form
> > online, on a Web site with a fair amount of bandwidth, where
> > people can ask


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Janet Driscoll
DATE: Tue 11:41
SUBJ: [wwwac] Our Prayers Are With You

All,
I subscribe to this list from Denver, CO and we're watching everything
unfold here. Our prayers are with you. If there's anything we can do to
help, let me know.
Janet








FROM: Kim B. Foglia
DATE: Tue 13:41
SUBJ: [wwwac] donate blood!

<http://www.nybloodcenter.org/>

NEW YORK, NY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2001 - Due to this morning's hijack plane 
attacks on two World Trade Center buildings, resulting in unknown 
medical emergencies, New York Blood Center has announced a blood 
emergency for the greater New York/New Jersey metropolitan area.

Dr. Robert Jones, New York Blood Center President and Chief Executive 
Officer, is urging all eligible donors to make a blood donation at 
donor sites in Manhattan at 310 East 67th Street (between 1st and 2nd 
Avenues) and 150 Amsterdam Avenue (66-67th Streets); in Brooklyn at 
120 Lawrence Street near MetroTech; on Staten Island at 1625 Forest 
Avenue; on Long Island at 2500 Marcus Avenue in Lake Success, 3125 
Veterans Highway in Bohemia; 333 Merrick Road in Rockville Centre and 
Route 110N in Melville/Huntington; at 167 New Street in New 
Brunswick, New Jersey; and 525 Executive Blvd. in Elmsford in 
Westchester. For more details on available donor locations, call 
1-800-933-2566. Hours at all sites have been extended until further 
notice.

Who Can Help?

Donors must be at least age 17**, weigh a minimum of 110 pounds and 
be in good general health. Photo or signature ID is required.

To find the nearest donation location call 1-800-933-2566 or refer to 
our blood drive locator.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*New York Blood Center regions include:
Brooklyn/Staten Island Blood Services
serving over 25 hospitals in Brooklyn & Staten Island
Hudson Valley Blood Services
serving over 50 hospitals in the Bronx and lower Hudson Valley
Long Island Blood Services
serving over 50 hospitals in Queens, Nassau & Suffolk
New Jersey Blood Services
serving over 65 hospitals in northern and central New Jersey
New York Blood Services
serving over 30 hospitals in Manhattan


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://ww 264ltcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: laurie kilmartin
DATE: Tue 13:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] who's responsible

But they're always claiming an attack is imminent, aren't they? I think it
would be much easier for white, blonde blue-eyed McVeigh-looking terrorists
to hijack *so many* airplanes as opposed to anyone of Middle Eastern origin.
It's still such an unthinkable attack-  an "All- American" looking terrorist
might be able to still pass through our lax security.

Laurie
--





Laurie Kilmartin
http://www.kilmartin.com

> From: <grimmwerks@...>
> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:34:41 -0500 (CDT)
> To: laurie kilmartin <laurie@...>
> Cc: wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] blood UWS
> 
> 
> Doubt it. 
> 
> first off, 3 weeks ago in a palestinian newspaper, an editor claimed that
> there would be such an attack on the us, the depth of whicch had not been
> seen yet. Also, the cheering and the giving out of candy in good old
> Arafat's hometown.
> 
> God. On fox they just showed a poor soul hanging from the wtc, waving
> frantically for help from the fire one floor above him. He finally jumped,
> probably to his death.
> 
> This could have been any of us. I believe in the sanctitiy of life, and
> would never go to war, but I think that's where we're headed.
> 
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, laurie kilmartin wrote:
> 
>> Is there any possibility that this was a domestic attack?  The Oklahoma
>> bombing was first thought to be an outside attack, after all.
>> 
>> Laurie








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 13:55
SUBJ: [wwwac] who's responsible

I just don't like not knowing anything at all right now. The one claim of
responsibility has already been diregarded because the group was too small.

Who could do something this horrible?!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: laurie kilmartin <mailto:laurie@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:50 PM
> To: grimmwerks@...
> Cc: wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] who's responsible
>
>
> But they're always claiming an attack is imminent, aren't they? I think it
> would be much easier for white, blonde blue-eyed McVeigh-looking
> terrorists
> to hijack *so many* airplanes as opposed to anyone of Middle
> Eastern origin.
> It's still such an unthinkable attack-  an "All- American"
> looking terrorist
> might be able to still pass through our lax security.
>
> Laurie
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> Laurie Kilmartin
> http://www.kilmartin.com
>
> > From: <grimmwerks@...>
> > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:34:41 -0500 (CDT)
> > To: laurie kilmartin <laurie@...>
> > Cc: wwwac@...
> > Subject: Re: [wwwac] blood UWS
> >
> >
> > Doubt it.
> >
> > first off, 3 weeks ago in a palestinian newspaper, an editor
> claimed that
> > there would be such an attack on the us, the depth of whicch
> had not been
> > seen yet. Also, the cheering and the giving out of candy in good old
> > Arafat's hometown.
> >
> > God. On fox they just showed a poor soul hanging from the wtc, waving
> > frantically for help from the fire one floor above him. He
> finally jumped,
> > probably to his death.
> >
> > This could have been any of us. I believe in the sanctitiy of life, and
> > would never go to war, but I think that's where we're headed.
> >
> > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, laurie kilmartin wrote:
> >
> >> Is there any possibility that this was a domestic attack?  The Oklahoma
> >> bombing was first thought to be an outside attack, after all.
> >>
> >> Laurie








FROM: Silicon Alley Station
DATE: Tue 13:50
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

I have to say the estimated death toll should be at least 100,000. Why? More
than 80,000 people work in the WTC. Add 90,000 tourists, passersby and thru,
shoppers. the Marriott WTC. Add the subways beneath at rush hour. Local
buildings surrounding the WTC with damage from falling debris, flaming
debris, car explosions from the flames, plane engines falling from the WTC
onto other buildings. Within 2 hours both towers had toppled.

Add hijacked airplanes, the pentagon, state dept., etc., etc.

Dolly Nielsen--Executive Producer
Silicon Alley Station Internet Radio-The Voice of Silicon
Alley--http://siliconalley.net
nielsen@...



----- Original Message -----
From: "hens" <hens@...>
To: "Lynne d Johnson" <ldj00@...>
Cc: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> First estimate death toll: 10,000
>
> Likely to go up.
>
> Unbelievable








FROM: Oliver Demasis
DATE: Tue 14:04
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

	A little premature for this discussion. However they did announce that on
an average day they have 10,000 people per tower and 5,000 tourists per day
in the towers and about 350 people in the 4 planes. A large amount of the
people in the buildings were successfully evacuated as well so I don't think
(and pray) that the numbers will be that high.

	- Oliver

-----Original Message-----
From: Silicon Alley Station <mailto:siliconalley@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:51 PM
To: hens; Lynne d Johnson
Cc: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


I have to say the estimated death toll should be at least 100,000. Why? More
than 80,000 people work in the WTC. Add 90,000 tourists, passersby and thru,
shoppers. the Marriott WTC. Add the subways beneath at rush hour. Local
buildings surrounding the WTC with damage from falling debris, flaming
debris, car explosions from the flames, plane engines falling from the WTC
onto other buildings. Within 2 hours both towers had toppled.

Add hijacked airplanes, the pentagon, state dept., etc., etc.

Dolly Nielsen--Executive Producer
Silicon Alley Station Internet Radio-The Voice of Silicon
Alley--http://siliconalley.net
nielsen@...



----- Original Message -----
From: "hens" <hens@...>
To: "Lynne d Johnson" <ldj00@...>
Cc: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> First estimate death toll: 10,000
>
> Likely to go up.
>
> Unbelievable








FROM: Hendrick Bosse
DATE: Tue 14:02
SUBJ: [wwwac] donate blood!

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FROM: Sue K
DATE: Tue 12:12
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

I just got off the phone with a friend in Paris.  He said that this is an
international crisis, Paris and London at least are treating this like they
may be next.  It seems there's some fear that all the major world capitals
will be hit.

He also said that French TV showed groups of Palestinians, laughing and
gleeful that this is happening.

Ay yi yi.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amita Guha <mailto:bfift2girl@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:58 AM
> Cc: wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
> > i'm also worried that this is only one aspect of the attack and
> that there
> > will be further incidents.
>
> I have a friend who works for the LAFD as a coordinator or something
> and she writes this:
>
> I just got into work and it's armaggedon. We
> are on alert and everyone has been recalled. All the
> chiefs are in a meeting and I think i'm being
> reassigned to the emergency operations center.








FROM: Eileen 'Turtle' Parzek
DATE: Tue 14:04
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

The surreal thing for me is, last weekend I was in manhattan showing a 
friend from San Francisco around and we laid around on the benches near the 
WTC fountain, pondered going up in them but he didnt' feel like it and I 
didn't press for it cuz I thought  "its not like they're going anywhere... 
I'll do it next time I'm here".  So unimaginable that they are gone... unreal

Everything up here is shut down as well, believe it or not... the state, 
the fed buldings, all the schools, the state university... I wonder if its 
like this all over the US?


At 02:04 PM 9/11/2001, Oliver Demasis wrote:
>         A little premature for this discussion. However they did announce 
> that on
>an average day they have 10,000 people per tower and 5,000 tourists per day
>in the towers and about 350 people in the 4 planes. A large amount of the
>people in the buildings were successfully evacuated as well so I don't think
>(and pray) that the numbers will be that high.

~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~
Eileen "Turtle" Parzek ~  phone~ 518-505-6617
http://www.turtlesweb.com  mailto:turtle@...
digital artist ~ information architect ~ project mgr ~ consultant








FROM: Jeremy Wilson
DATE: Tue 11:11
SUBJ: [wwwac] Our Prayers Are With You

Likewise from Seattle, WA.  No words can ever do justice to this
unfolding situation.  

Jeremy Wilson
Wilson Design Technologies

-----Original Message-----
From: Janet Driscoll <mailto:janet.driscoll@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:42 AM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] Our Prayers Are With You

All,
I subscribe to this list from Denver, CO and we're watching everything
unfold here. Our prayers are with you. If there's anything we can do to
help, let me know.
Janet








FROM: Jonathan Kopp
DATE: Tue 13:12
SUBJ: [wwwac] Routing phones

If anyone has internet access but not phones and needs to get a call out, 
I'm in Nashville and unaffected. I can be reached at jonathan@... or on 
AIM at XanthusLeo.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
DATE: Tue 14:12
SUBJ: [wwwac] Rebuild then now

Now what we should be immediately be planning to rebuild the buildings.

We must remove the scare right now.


Ruben
_____________________________________
On 2001.09.11 14:04:57 -0400 Oliver Demasis wrote:
	A little premature for this discussion. However they did announce
that on
an average day they have 10,000 people per tower and 5,000 tourists per day
in the towers and about 350 people in the 4 planes. A large amount of the
people in the buildings were successfully evacuated as well so I don't
think
(and pray) that the numbers will be that high.

	- Oliver

-----Original Message-----
From: Silicon Alley Station <mailto:siliconalley@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:51 PM
To: hens; Lynne d Johnson
Cc: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


I have to say the estimated death toll should be at least 100,000. Why?
More
than 80,000 people work in the WTC. Add 90,000 tourists, passersby and
thru,
shoppers. the Marriott WTC. Add the subways beneath at rush hour. Local
buildings surrounding the WTC with damage from falling debris, flaming
debris, car explosions from the flames, plane engines falling from the WTC
onto other buildings. Within 2 hours both towers had toppled.

Add hijacked airplanes, the pentagon, state dept., etc., etc.

Dolly Nielsen--Executive Producer
Silicon Alley Station Internet Radio-The Voice of Silicon
Alley--http://siliconalley.net
nielsen@...



----- Original Message -----
From: "hens" <hens@...>
To: "Lynne d Johnson" <ldj00@...>
Cc: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> First estimate death toll: 10,000
>
> Likely to go up.
>
> Unbelievable



-- 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: Raphi Salem
DATE: Tue 14:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke - 911! or 9/11 - Get it?

I just heard on the radio (no TV here in my pad) the idea of 911!
9/11
September 11th
so obvious you would think that our great city and nation could detect
something like this would happen with all of the technology that exists in
outer space.
As for #s, I pray that it is not the high figure of 50 -100K but it has to
be over 10k.
God bless everyone
r
Raphi Salem
SalemGlobal Internet Web Design and Programming
www.salemglobal.com
315 West 36th Street #508
NY, NY 10018
T) 212-736-9636
F) 212-736-2896
raphis@...








FROM: Hendrick Bosse
DATE: Tue 14:14
SUBJ: [wwwac] room to spares info as of 12:30pm + giving blood info

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FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 14:19
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Are the subways open yet? I just went
out for groceries and I saw a bunch of
people coming from the direction
of the subway, but that was also the
direction of Manhattan...








FROM: Oliver Demasis
DATE: Tue 14:21
SUBJ: [wwwac] Rebuild then now

	I don't think they ever will rebuild the buildings. It would be hard to
find tenants who would want to work there. My guess is that they will level
the area and make some sort of monument to the lives lost.

	- Oliver

-----Original Message-----
From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:13 PM
To: Oliver Demasis
Cc: Silicon Alley Station; wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] Rebuild then now


Now what we should be immediately be planning to rebuild the buildings.

We must remove the scare right now.


Ruben
_____________________________________
On 2001.09.11 14:04:57 -0400 Oliver Demasis wrote:
	A little premature for this discussion. However they did announce
that on
an average day they have 10,000 people per tower and 5,000 tourists per day
in the towers and about 350 people in the 4 planes. A large amount of the
people in the buildings were successfully evacuated as well so I don't
think
(and pray) that the numbers will be that high.

	- Oliver

-----Original Message-----
From: Silicon Alley Station <mailto:siliconalley@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:51 PM
To: hens; Lynne d Johnson
Cc: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


I have to say the estimated death toll should be at least 100,000. Why?
More
than 80,000 people work in the WTC. Add 90,000 tourists, passersby and
thru,
shoppers. the Marriott WTC. Add the subways beneath at rush hour. Local
buildings surrounding the WTC with damage from falling debris, flaming
debris, car explosions from the flames, plane engines falling from the WTC
onto other buildings. Within 2 hours both towers had toppled.

Add hijacked airplanes, the pentagon, state dept., etc., etc.

Dolly Nielsen--Executive Producer
Silicon Alley Station Internet Radio-The Voice of Silicon
Alley--http://siliconalley.net
nielsen@...



----- Original Message -----
From: "hens" <hens@...>
To: "Lynne d Johnson" <ldj00@...>
Cc: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> First estimate death toll: 10,000
>
> Likely to go up.
>
> Unbelievable



--
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: leanne waldal
DATE: Tue 11:20
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

At 02:04 PM 9/11/01 -0400, Eileen 'Turtle' Parzek wrote:
>Everything up here is shut down as well, believe it or not... the state, 
>the fed buldings, all the schools, the state university... I wonder if its 
>like this all over the US?


everything's pretty much shut down in san francisco ... all fed/state 
buildings, our public transportation is on some kind of alert-something, 
most of my friends' workplaces are closed today, all schools are closed, 
some buildings here have been evacuated, the pac stock exchange here was 
closed, and, of course, our airports are shut down.  whew.








FROM: Michael Kent Simmons
DATE: Tue 15:21
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke - 911! or 9/11 - Get it?

From Brazil:

My God. Our prayers are with you all. What a horrific tragedy for so many
innocent people.

m.
------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raphi Salem" <raphis@...>
To: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke - 911! or 9/11 - Get it?


> I just heard on the radio (no TV here in my pad) the idea of 911!
> 9/11
> September 11th
> so obvious you would think that our great city and nation could detect
> something like this would happen with all of the technology that exists in
> outer space.
> As for #s, I pray that it is not the high figure of 50 -100K but it has to
> be over 10k.
> God bless everyone
> r
> Raphi Salem
> SalemGlobal Internet Web Design and Programming
> www.salemglobal.com
> 315 West 36th Street #508
> NY, NY 10018
> T) 212-736-9636
> F) 212-736-2896
> raphis@...








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 14:21
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke - 911! or 9/11 - Get it?

Uh...today is the anniversary of the Camp David peace accords that 
have so angered so many in the mid east.


At 2:23 PM -0400 09-11-2001, Raphi Salem wrote:
>I just heard on the radio (no TV here in my pad) the idea of 911!
>9/11
>September 11th
>so obvious you would think that our great city and nation could detect
>something like this would happen with all of the technology that exists in
>outer space.
>As for #s, I pray that it is not the high figure of 50 -100K but it has to
>be over 10k.
>God bless everyone
>r
>Raphi Salem
>SalemGlobal Internet Web Design and Programming
>www.salemglobal.com
>315 West 36th Street #508
>NY, NY 10018
>T) 212-736-9636
>F) 212-736-2896
>raphis@...








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 13:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] blood UWS

We certainly shouldn't jump to conclusions either way.  Certainly, the
Palestinians are an unlikely culprit.  They are not well enough organized to
pull something like this off.  Also, the issues for the Palestinians are
very different than those of someone like Ben Laden.  Most Palestinians are
much more interested in freedom from oppression than a holy war.  In fact,
many Palestinians are not Muslims at all.  Further, most Palestinians know
that the sympathy of the West is the only chance for peace.  There may be an
extreme minority that would collaborate with Ben Laden, but that is more a
facet of an extremist religion than one of race, which reflects a very small
minority of the Palestinian population.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grimmwerks@... <mailto:grimmwerks@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:35 PM
> To: laurie kilmartin
> Cc: wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] blood UWS
> 
> 
> 
> Doubt it. 
> 
> first off, 3 weeks ago in a palestinian newspaper, an editor 
> claimed that
> there would be such an attack on the us, the depth of whicch 
> had not been
> seen yet. Also, the cheering and the giving out of candy in good old
> Arafat's hometown.
> 
> God. On fox they just showed a poor soul hanging from the wtc, waving
> frantically for help from the fire one floor above him. He 
> finally jumped,
> probably to his death.
> 
> This could have been any of us. I believe in the sanctitiy of 
> life, and
> would never go to war, but I think that's where we're headed.
> 
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, laurie kilmartin wrote:
> 
> > Is there any possibility that this was a domestic attack?  
> The Oklahoma
> > bombing was first thought to be an outside attack, after all.
> > 
> > Laurie








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 14:24
SUBJ: [wwwac] Arrest the Security Guards

In my opinion, the originating airports of these flights should 
arrest those working on "security" on charges of negligent homicide.

One count for each of the dead.



-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin T. Focazio
Direct OFF-LIST Replies to: Martin@...
Martin T. Focazio LLC.
Executive Education, Management Consulting, Strategic Planning
610.847.1118 voice
mtfocazio AOL IM
focazio Yahoo Messenger








FROM: Hendrick Bosse
DATE: Tue 14:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] room to spares info as of 12:30pm + giving blood info

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FROM: 
DATE: Tue 14:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

For those commuting from Central NJ and Philly to the City,

We live near Princetoon NJ (Monmouth Junction to be exact.)

Not much room, no long distance but it could be a waystation of sorts if need 
be.  Hell, lets make a makeshift party out of it. 

Call Tufani @ 732-940-6360 to connect.








FROM: Kim B. Foglia
DATE: Tue 14:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] flightexplorer.com and more

CNN is showing the flight path of the planes on TV. They are getting 
the feed from a site called: http://www.flightexplorer.com but I 
haven't been able to connect to their site.  The first plane to hit 
the WTC was tracked out of Boston to Albany area, then it took a 
sharp dog leg south directly to NYC. They are wondering what air 
traffic controllers along the way were getting from it. They will be 
looking for the cockpit recorders in the debris.

CNN also reported that a passenger on the flight that crashed in PA, 
made contact via a cell phone while locked in the bathroom and was 
yelling "We are being hijacked!"


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://www.galtcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: Kim B. Foglia
DATE: Tue 14:25
SUBJ: [wwwac] LIRR running now

Just got word that folks just got out of Penn Station on trains.


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://www.galtcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: Hendrick Bosse
DATE: Tue 14:25
SUBJ: [wwwac] Rebuild then now

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FROM: Janet Driscoll
DATE: Tue 12:29
SUBJ: [wwwac] Arrest the Security Guards

Martin,

One of the latest theories is that many people boarded the plane without
weapons, which may have enabled them to overtake the crew. If this was the
case, they could not have been detected at the airports.


-----Original Message-----
From: Martin T. Focazio <mailto:wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:25 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] Arrest the Security Guards

In my opinion, the originating airports of these flights should
arrest those working on "security" on charges of negligent homicide.

One count for each of the dead.



--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin T. Focazio
Direct OFF-LIST Replies to: Martin@...
Martin T. Focazio LLC.
Executive Education, Management Consulting, Strategic Planning
610.847.1118 voice
mtfocazio AOL IM
focazio Yahoo Messenger








FROM: Scott Wickham
DATE: Tue 11:29
SUBJ: [wwwac] If any one stranded drop me a line

Now that my brain is working again.

Have an empty apt:

http://www.webnyc.com/

No furniture. But toliet and fairway across the street
for food.

Drop me a line.  email here and or call 212 749 3951

I am at 95th street but I could arrange to come down
to 74th around 5 or 7 and lets a few wwwacies or
wwwacies friends in to crash.

Drop me a line if needed otherwise I will stay curled
up here with my family.



Scott Wickham

=====
Scott Wickham

74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt 
Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com    
for Sale by owner

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: WWAC list
DATE: Tue 14:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

>He also said that French TV showed groups of Palestinians, laughing and
>gleeful that this is happening.
>
>Ay yi yi.


Sue,

This is a tragedy and I think that most of us on this group sent our 
prayers and thoughts to the victims and their families.

The politics of the United States and the middle east situation should 
not be brought into this as it diminishes the whole suffering of the 
victims. Your xenophobic comments are better left to another debate....


Denis Doyle








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 14:31
SUBJ: [wwwac] room to spares info as of 12:30pm + giving blood info


Not sure if I could do anything but Im in Lexington, Ky.  If you are stranded 
here or need me to try to make a call please feel free to contact me.  
859-333-5141.  Let me know..................  everyone and all of us are in 
my prayers.








FROM: Nomad Media Lab
DATE: Tue 14:31
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke - 911! or 9/11 - Get it?



actually, the talks were in progress on 9/11 the actual anniversary of the
signing of the accord is the 17th [from the bbc: The Camp David accord
between Israel and Egypt, witnessed by Jimmy Carter at the  president's
Maryland retreat on 17 September, 1978, spoke of "a new era of
reconciliation in  the Middle East". It marked the first peace  agreement
reached between Israel and one of her hostile Arab neighbours.]

--eric

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Martin T. Focazio wrote:

> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:21:02 -0400 From: Martin T. Focazio
> <wwwac@...> To: Raphi Salem <raphis@...>,
> wwwac@... Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke - 911! or 9/11 -
> Get it?
>
> Uh...today is the anniversary of the Camp David peace accords that
> have so angered so many in the mid east.
>
>
> At 2:23 PM -0400 09-11-2001, Raphi Salem wrote:
> >I just heard on the radio (no TV here in my pad) the idea of 911!
> >9/11
> >September 11th
> >so obvious you would think that our great city and nation could detect
> >something like this would happen with all of the technology that exists in
> >outer space.
> >As for #s, I pray that it is not the high figure of 50 -100K but it has to
> >be over 10k.
> >God bless everyone
> >r
> >Raphi Salem
> >SalemGlobal Internet Web Design and Programming
> >www.salemglobal.com
> >315 West 36th Street #508
> >NY, NY 10018
> >T) 212-736-9636
> >F) 212-736-2896
> >raphis@...



---------------------------------
Nomad Media Lab
design + technology consulting
http://www.nomadlab.com








FROM: Scott Wickham
DATE: Tue 11:32
SUBJ: [wwwac] Re: Stop this stupidity now [wwwac] Arrest the Security Guards

talk to someone who travels to israle on a regular
basis. On a regular flight vs El Al.

America has no idea of the kind of security that is
required to stop this from happening.

The blame lies in the hands of the ones who did it.

Today take care of the wounded tomorrow payback.


--- "Martin T. Focazio" <wwwac@...> wrote:
> In my opinion, the originating airports of these
> flights should 
> arrest those working on "security" on charges of
> negligent homicide.
> 
> One count for each of the dead.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> Martin T. Focazio
> Direct OFF-LIST Replies to: Martin@...
> Martin T. Focazio LLC.
> Executive Education, Management Consulting,
> Strategic Planning
> 610.847.1118 voice
> mtfocazio AOL IM
> focazio Yahoo Messenger


=====
Scott Wickham

74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt 
Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com    
for Sale by owner

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: B.K. DeLong
DATE: Tue 14:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] Arrest the Security Guards

At 12:29 PM 09/11/2001 -0600, you wrote:
>One of the latest theories is that many people boarded the plane without
>weapons, which may have enabled them to overtake the crew. If this was the
>case, they could not have been detected at the airports.

Especially if they went through the motions of purchasing a plane ticket.


--
B.K. DeLong
bkdelong@...
617.877.3271

http://www.brain-stream.com               Play.
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org        Potter.
http://www.attrition.org                       Security.
http://www.artemisiabotanicals.com     Herb.








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 14:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] Blood in SoHo

Does anyone know of the closest/best place in SoHo to donate blood?

I'm right by the tunnel.

Thanks








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 14:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] Re: Stop this stupidity now [wwwac] Arrest the Security Guards

OK, You are right. I'm quite certain I lost friends in this today, 
I'm vengeful.

At 11:32 AM -0700 09-11-2001, Scott Wickham wrote:
>talk to someone who travels to israle on a regular
>basis. On a regular flight vs El Al.
>
>America has no idea of the kind of security that is
>required to stop this from happening.
>
>The blame lies in the hands of the ones who did it.
>
>Today take care of the wounded tomorrow payback.
>
>
>--- "Martin T. Focazio" <wwwac@...> wrote:
>>  In my opinion, the originating airports of these
>>  flights should
>>  arrest those working on "security" on charges of
>>  negligent homicide.
>>
>>  One count for each of the dead.
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Martin T. Focazio
>>  Direct OFF-LIST Replies to: Martin@...
>>  Martin T. Focazio LLC.
>>  Executive Education, Management Consulting,
>>  Strategic Planning
>>  610.847.1118 voice
>>  mtfocazio AOL IM
>>  focazio Yahoo Messenger
>=====
>Scott Wickham
>
>74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt
>Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com   
>for Sale by owner
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
>http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Larry Aronson
DATE: Tue 11:40
SUBJ: [wwwac] Silicon Alley Quality of Life

Hi Hens.

>So Larry, do you really believe the quality of life in Silicon Alley 
>goes UP the more clubs are being closed DOWN?

No, I'm not opposed to clubs per se, just the Limelight. For more 
information about our community's opposition, see Laura Italiano's 
series of articles in the NY Post. If anyone has doubts that the new 
bosses are any different than the old bosses, then come to the 
meeting and hear the testimony of my neighbors.

During it's heyday, the Limelight imported 15,000 extra people into 
our streets each weekend. Many, perhaps the majority, were already 
drunk coming in and most got higher both in and around the club, 
'cause that's what it was all about. Neither the club nor it's 
patrons showed any respect for the residents. We watched our 
neighbors, especially those with children, being forced to move out 
by the noise and danger.

Nor am I opposed to the casual use of recreational substances or 
people having fun and partying. I AM opposed to teenagers, high on 
multiple substances, driving around our streets at 3am looking for 
trouble.

The Limelight case also represents an important test for the 
Community board and the ability of residents to control their own 
neighborhoods. The opposition is based on the 500 foot rule, a law 
that allows communities a say whenever there are more than a certain 
number of liquor selling businesses in a residential area. I forgot 
exactly what the number is, but within a 500 foot radius of the 
Limelight, there's something like 200 more than that limit. Yet, 
despite this law and despite the testimony of many residents at 
numerous hearings, we were unable to prevent the F-Stop cafe from 
becoming Club Lava.

A correction to my earlier post -- Senator Tom Duane, Councilwoman Chrisitne
Quinne and Assemblyman Richard Gottfired have now submitted letters 
urging a liquor license be denied to the new owners.

And yes, I will thank a tyrant for his good deeds.

Thanks for the opportunity to bring this matter to your attention.

larry

-- 
Larry Aronson
<larry@...>
http://www.laronson.com








FROM: Raphi Salem
DATE: Tue 14:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] Blood in SoHo

i just heard
1-800-give blood
Raphi Salem
SalemGlobal Internet Web Design and Programming
www.salemglobal.com
315 West 36th Street #508
NY, NY 10018
T) 212-736-9636
F) 212-736-2896
raphis@...
----- Original Message -----
From: <RTCW@...>
To: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:38 PM
Subject: [wwwac] Blood in SoHo


> Does anyone know of the closest/best place in SoHo to donate blood?
>
> I'm right by the tunnel.
>
> Thanks








FROM: Gerard McGovern
DATE: Tue 19:42
SUBJ: [wwwac] Room in London

If any of you WWWACies are stranded in London, we can take a few people
in our house. There are no hotel rooms around Heathrow and you are more
than welcome to stay here. We have lots of beer and lots of cookies ;-)

Number is 07980 760 228 or if calling from the States, 00 44 7980 760
228.

My thoughts are with you guys over in the pond.

Peace,

--

  =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95
  Gerard McGovern
  Webmonkey to the stars

    gerard@...
    http://www.inkiboo.com

  =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
DATE: Tue 14:42
SUBJ: [wwwac] Rebuild then now

The MUST be rebuit, otherwise it's a scare on the city and it caves in to
the terrorists.

We should defiantly put them back up as soon as possible.

Ruben
___________________________________

On 2001.09.11 14:21:37 -0400 Oliver Demasis wrote:
	I don't think they ever will rebuild the buildings. It would be
hard to
find tenants who would want to work there. My guess is that they will level
the area and make some sort of monument to the lives lost.

	- Oliver

-----Original Message-----
From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:13 PM
To: Oliver Demasis
Cc: Silicon Alley Station; wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] Rebuild then now


Now what we should be immediately be planning to rebuild the buildings.

We must remove the scare right now.


Ruben
_____________________________________
On 2001.09.11 14:04:57 -0400 Oliver Demasis wrote:
	A little premature for this discussion. However they did announce
that on
an average day they have 10,000 people per tower and 5,000 tourists per day
in the towers and about 350 people in the 4 planes. A large amount of the
people in the buildings were successfully evacuated as well so I don't
think
(and pray) that the numbers will be that high.

	- Oliver

-----Original Message-----
From: Silicon Alley Station <mailto:siliconalley@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:51 PM
To: hens; Lynne d Johnson
Cc: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


I have to say the estimated death toll should be at least 100,000. Why?
More
than 80,000 people work in the WTC. Add 90,000 tourists, passersby and
thru,
shoppers. the Marriott WTC. Add the subways beneath at rush hour. Local
buildings surrounding the WTC with damage from falling debris, flaming
debris, car explosions from the flames, plane engines falling from the WTC
onto other buildings. Within 2 hours both towers had toppled.

Add hijacked airplanes, the pentagon, state dept., etc., etc.

Dolly Nielsen--Executive Producer
Silicon Alley Station Internet Radio-The Voice of Silicon
Alley--http://siliconalley.net
nielsen@...



----- Original Message -----
From: "hens" <hens@...>
To: "Lynne d Johnson" <ldj00@...>
Cc: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


> First estimate death toll: 10,000
>
> Likely to go up.
>
> Unbelievable



--
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752



-- 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: Jonathan Kopp
DATE: Tue 13:42
SUBJ: [wwwac] Looting?

Has anyone in Manhattan seen any evidence of looting yet?
I'm afraid it will be bad after dark. Stay indoors, y'all.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: Patricia Tagle
DATE: Tue 14:39
SUBJ: [wwwac] subway trains running

Does anyone know what lines are running right now?








FROM: Scott Wickham
DATE: Tue 11:47
SUBJ: [wwwac] Re: Stop this stupidity now [wwwac] Arrest the Security Guards

I understand revenge.

Perl Harbor

2 atomic bombs

Need I say more

but 5.5 an hours security guards aren't to blame.
anymore than doom is responible for columbine.
Punish the criminals.



--- "Martin T. Focazio" <wwwac@...> wrote:
> OK, You are right. I'm quite certain I lost friends
> in this today, 
> I'm vengeful.
> 
> At 11:32 AM -0700 09-11-2001, Scott Wickham wrote:
> >talk to someone who travels to israle on a regular
> >basis. On a regular flight vs El Al.
> >
> >America has no idea of the kind of security that is
> >required to stop this from happening.
> >
> >The blame lies in the hands of the ones who did it.
> >
> >Today take care of the wounded tomorrow payback.
> >
> >
> >--- "Martin T. Focazio" <wwwac@...> wrote:
> >>  In my opinion, the originating airports of these
> >>  flights should
> >>  arrest those working on "security" on charges of
> >>  negligent homicide.
> >>
> >>  One count for each of the dead.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  --
> >>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>  Martin T. Focazio
> >>  Direct OFF-LIST Replies to: Martin@...
> >>  Martin T. Focazio LLC.
> >>  Executive Education, Management Consulting,
> >>  Strategic Planning
> >>  610.847.1118 voice
> >>  mtfocazio AOL IM
> >>  focazio Yahoo Messenger
> >=====
> >Scott Wickham
> >
> >74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt
> >Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com   
> >for Sale by owner
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant
> messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
> >http://im.yahoo.com
> 


=====
Scott Wickham

74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt 
Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com    
for Sale by owner

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Kim B. Foglia
DATE: Tue 14:45
SUBJ: [wwwac] Blood in SoHo

>Does anyone know of the closest/best place in SoHo to donate blood?


<http://www.nybloodcenter.org/>


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://www.galtcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: Nomad Media Lab
DATE: Tue 14:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] nyc in times of crisis


Today has been a very strange day for all of us, I am sure. It will
probably take us all a while to fully digest what we have seen today. But,
look beyond the chaos. In times of crisis, new york city shows its true
self. I have been amazed today at the kindness and mutual support I have
seen on the streets today. Even on the wwwac list, people are not loosing
their heads, but instead are figuring out how to help, provide some
support, etc... This is not only nice to see, but it is the best
counter-terrorism I can think of.

Thanks to the wwwac list moderators for realizing that this conversation,
while off topic, is important for the list.

Please feel free to post your thoughts and comments on today's events at

http://slash.interactivist.net/article.pl?sid=01/09/11/1720252

--Eric








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 14:50
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

> The surreal thing for me is, last weekend I was in manhattan showing a 
> friend from San Francisco around and we laid around on the 
> benches near the 
> WTC fountain, pondered going up in them but he didnt' feel like it and I 
> didn't press for it cuz I thought  "its not like they're going 
> anywhere... 
> I'll do it next time I'm here".  So unimaginable that they are 
> gone... unreal

You know, it's funny, yesterday I was down in Soho with a friend and
I took a picture of the Towers. We discussed going up because neither
of us had ever been up there, but we decided not to. And now we'll
never get to go...

Those fountains were so nice. Last year I had software training down
there and I used to go eat lunch at the fountains. I can't believe
that it's all destroyed. :(








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 14:51
SUBJ: [wwwac] Blood in SoHo

They have nothing closer than 50 blocks away, does anyome know of anything 
closer in this non-motorized city?

<http://www.nybloodcenter.org/> 








FROM: Raphi Salem
DATE: Tue 14:59
SUBJ: [wwwac] blood donate and other update 800-933-BLOOD

800-933-BLOOD is another # below for blood donations
read on:

http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=1&subtopicin
tid=1&contentintid=16017

How To Contact Services In Aftermath Of Trade Center Attack

SEPTEMBER 11TH, 2001

Emergency crews have cordoned off Lower Manhattan following Tuesday
morning's unprecedented terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, brought
about when two hijacked airplanes were crashed into the twin towers.

Following is information for residents trying to access services in the
aftermath of the attack:

New York City is on terrorist alert and the Lincoln, Holland and Brooklyn
Battery Tunnels have been sealed and many area bridges and roads are closed.

All mass transit has been shut down, with limited service on the Long Island
Railroad in Brooklyn and Queens. LIRR and MetroNorth trains have suspended
service into New York City.

The FAA has halted all takeoffs nationwide in response to the attacks. In
addition, Greyhound has halted national bus service.

The Red Cross is asking the public for blood donations. Residents can
1-800-933-BLOOD to find the nearest location for emergency collection.

American Airlines has set up a hotline for relatives who may have been on
their downed flights, at 1-800-245-0999. St. Vincent's Hospital, which is
treating many of the victims, can be reached at 212-604-7285.

Morgan Stanley, which had offices in the World Trade Center, has set up a
number to for friends and family of its employees at 1-888-883-4391.

Raphi Salem
SalemGlobal Internet Web Design and Programming
www.salemglobal.com
315 West 36th Street #508
NY, NY 10018
T) 212-736-9636
F) 212-736-2896
raphis@...








FROM: Nomad Media Lab
DATE: Tue 14:54
SUBJ: [wwwac] Blood in SoHo


maybe just go to St. Vincents on 7th ave. [not quite in soho, but less
than 50 blocks away]  many of the injured are being
taken there. I think they are taking blood at the hospital (they were
earlier).

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 RTCW@... wrote:

> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:51:30 EDT
> From: RTCW@...
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] Blood in SoHo
>
> They have nothing closer than 50 blocks away, does anyome know of anything
> closer in this non-motorized city?
>
> <http://www.nybloodcenter.org/>



---------------------------------
Nomad Media Lab
design + technology consulting
http://www.nomadlab.com








FROM: Gilbert Midonnet
DATE: Tue 15:03
SUBJ: [wwwac] access in and out of nyc

------_=_NextPart_001_01C13AF4.8243D7C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="windows-1252"

does anybody know if the tappan zee, whitestone, triboro, throgs neck
bridges are open? How about gotthals and the outerborough?
would love to be able to get back to brooklyn tonight -- saw them come down
.... 


:: gilbert midonnet 


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------- 
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
confidential, proprietary or legally 
privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by
any mistransmission. If 
you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
copies of it from your 
system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not,
directly or indirectly, 
use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you
are not the intended 
recipient. 



------_=_NextPart_001_01C13AF4.8243D7C0--








FROM: Julian Laurent Harker
DATE: Tue 15:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] director projector problems on PC

Hi Folks, 

I know this is probably the last thing anyone wants to think about right 
now, so sorry for the bad timing.
I'm having problems with video in a director project when it is exported 
as a projector on the PC.  The top part of the video frame stays in place 
and plays at the normal frame rate, but the bottom part keeps jumping up 
revealing a black space where the lower video boundary should be.
It works fine on a G4, and the video itself works fine when played as a 
stand alone clip in quicktime on the pc... it just doesn't work once it's 
in director.
The video is quicktime, using sorenson compression...
My best guess is that it's a memory issue, but I was wondering whether 
anyone had ever had the same problem before...
thanks for any advice,
sorry again for the timing...
Julian 








FROM: amy gawronski
DATE: Tue 14:06
SUBJ: [wwwac] Blood in SoHo

--Boundary_(ID_AaFzJBCbhD/bEkwV8qE5bQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

st. vincents is not taking blood donations yet. two of my friends went 
down there earlier this afternnon and were turned away. they said to 
come back tomorrow.

i'm also outside of nyc, and would be willing to make phone calls for 
anyone or help out in any way i can.

:: amy gawronski
:: digital hired gun
:: http://www.rayvenproductions.com (work stuff)
:: http://www.bledwhite.com (me stuff)

Nomad Media Lab wrote:

>maybe just go to St. Vincents on 7th ave. [not quite in soho, but less
>than 50 blocks away]  many of the injured are being
>taken there. I think they are taking blood at the hospital (they were
>earlier).
>
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 RTCW@... wrote:
>
>>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:51:30 EDT
>>From: RTCW@...
>>To: wwwac@...
>>Subject: [wwwac] Blood in SoHo
>>
>>They have nothing closer than 50 blocks away, does anyome know of anything
>>closer in this non-motorized city?
>>
>><http://www.nybloodcenter.org/>
>---------------------------------
>Nomad Media Lab
>design + technology consulting
>http://www.nomadlab.com
>
>
>


--Boundary_(ID_AaFzJBCbhD/bEkwV8qE5bQ)--








FROM: Eric Scuccimarra
DATE: Tue 15:03
SUBJ: [wwwac] access in and out of nyc

I'm just south of the Tappan Zee... It looks open. There are cars driving 
across it. The Whitestone, Triboro and Throgs Neck I obviously can't see 
but I don't think they are open. From what I hear there are no ways in or 
out of Manhattan except by the Williamsburg Bridge (?) on foot and possibly 
one lane outbound on the GWB.

At 03:03 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Gilbert Midonnet wrote:
>does anybody know if the tappan zee, whitestone, triboro, throgs neck
>bridges are open? How about gotthals and the outerborough?
>would love to be able to get back to brooklyn tonight -- saw them come down
>....
>
>
>:: gilbert midonnet
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----------------------------------------------------
>This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
>confidential, proprietary or legally
>privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by
>any mistransmission. If
>you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
>copies of it from your
>system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not,
>directly or indirectly,
>use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you
>are not the intended
>recipient.








FROM: Jonathan Kopp
DATE: Tue 14:11
SUBJ: [wwwac] nyc in times of crisis

I agree with Eric. We are all angry, confused, scared and grieving. But New 
Yorkers look after each other in hard times.

But more than just protecting ourselves physically we all need to keep our 
heads to avoid a political or economic meltdown. It would be the deepest 
tragedy if we signed away our civil liberties in our fervor to take 
vengeance on a shadowy terrorist enemy. The promise and priveleges of a 
democratic society are our greatest treasures. If we allow terrorists to 
take these things away from us the they have truly dealt us a death blow.

My 2 cents.

Jonathan


>From: Nomad Media Lab <eric@...>
>Reply-To: <eric@...>
>To: <wwwac@...>
>Subject: [wwwac] nyc in times of crisis
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:49:55 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>Today has been a very strange day for all of us, I am sure. It will
>probably take us all a while to fully digest what we have seen today. But,
>look beyond the chaos. In times of crisis, new york city shows its true
>self. I have been amazed today at the kindness and mutual support I have
>seen on the streets today. Even on the wwwac list, people are not loosing
>their heads, but instead are figuring out how to help, provide some
>support, etc... This is not only nice to see, but it is the best
>counter-terrorism I can think of.
>
>Thanks to the wwwac list moderators for realizing that this conversation,
>while off topic, is important for the list.
>
>Please feel free to post your thoughts and comments on today's events at
>
>http://slash.interactivist.net/article.pl?sid=01/09/11/1720252
>
>--Eric


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 15:15
SUBJ: [wwwac] nyc in times of crisis


I agree.  If we allow this to effect us economically & politically the 
terrorist will succeed.  Which is exactly what they are after.  








FROM: eidoru design
DATE: Tue 15:32
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

if anyone who lives in manhattan happens to be stuck in bklyn, give 
us a call, would be happy to put up as many people who need a place 
as we possibly can. number is 718 467 5911, or page at 917 827 9655

jana & brandon


-- 
<insert witty quote here>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+








FROM: Thomas Walser
DATE: Tue 15:27
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone know what they are?








FROM: Timothy Embler
DATE: Tue 12:28
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Military planes.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:27 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?


anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone know what
they are?








FROM: Timothy Embler
DATE: Tue 12:29
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

That's nice of you guys.

Good job :)

-----Original Message-----
From: eidoru design <mailto:eidoru@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:32 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?


if anyone who lives in manhattan happens to be stuck in bklyn, give 
us a call, would be happy to put up as many people who need a place 
as we possibly can. number is 718 467 5911, or page at 917 827 9655

jana & brandon


-- 
<insert witty quote here>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+








FROM: Steve Sloan
DATE: Tue 15:35
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

NPR reports that the FAA says there are NO commercial domestic flights in
American airspace (so the rumor that there are other hijacked planes flying
around is just that, a rumor.)

There are some international flights that are being allowed to land.

The planes you're hearing are most likely American fighter jets.  I saw 2
F-16s (I think, a little rusty in this department) flying over Manhattan
earlier today.

BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
defense *now* ?

Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
/********************************************************/
             Engineering The Information Economy (TM)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>
>
> anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
> know what they are?








FROM: Timothy Embler
DATE: Tue 12:30
SUBJ: [wwwac] nyc in times of crisis

Yes lets please thank the mods.

We need this thread :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Nomad Media Lab <mailto:eric@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:50 AM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] nyc in times of crisis



Today has been a very strange day for all of us, I am sure. It will
probably take us all a while to fully digest what we have seen today.
But, look beyond the chaos. In times of crisis, new york city shows its
true self. I have been amazed today at the kindness and mutual support I
have seen on the streets today. Even on the wwwac list, people are not
loosing their heads, but instead are figuring out how to help, provide
some support, etc... This is not only nice to see, but it is the best
counter-terrorism I can think of.

Thanks to the wwwac list moderators for realizing that this
conversation, while off topic, is important for the list.

Please feel free to post your thoughts and comments on today's events at

http://slash.interactivist.net/article.pl?sid=01/09/11/1720252

--Eric








FROM: Timothy Embler
DATE: Tue 12:30
SUBJ: [wwwac] subway trains running

I believe I heard letters are but numbers aren't.



-----Original Message-----
From: Patricia Tagle <mailto:patricia@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:39 AM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] subway trains running


Does anyone know what lines are running right now?








FROM: S Oei
DATE: Tue 15:34
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Yes,  I too am hearing large jets overhead (way up on the west side) every 
10 -20 minutes.   I think they are more than likely, US Airforce jets... or 
some other US security, considering all other aircraft have been grounded.

I admit, it does seem scary as they pass by, because they sound unusally low.

soei

To: wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

anyone else hearing planes in the air? if so, does anyone know what they are?








FROM: Tim
DATE: Tue 13:44
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Sure do.

Having a scary military and imperialist agenda are exactly the sort of things
that create these situations.  Maybe if our expensive defense apparatus had
recognized and neutralized this threat, I'd be inclined to believe the money
was well spent.

The way I see it, the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this 
sort of attention (assuming this was an international incident).

-THL
At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Steve Sloan wrote:


>BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
>defense *now* ?
>
>Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
>Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
>/********************************************************/
>              Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
> > To: wwwac@...
> > Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
> >
> >
> > anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
> > know what they are?








FROM: Jonathan Kopp
DATE: Tue 14:43
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

I think there are fighter interceptors patrolling NYC airspace. Two aircraft 
carriers and five warships have been deployed to the NYC area. It seems 
likely that the Air Force has shot down at least one commercial aircraft, so 
they're not playing around.

D.C. has declared a state of emergency and FEMA has stepped in in NYC.


>From: S Oei <soei@...>
>To: wwwac@...
>Subject: Re: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:34:20 -0400
>
>Yes,  I too am hearing large jets overhead (way up on the west side) every
>10 -20 minutes.   I think they are more than likely, US Airforce jets... or
>some other US security, considering all other aircraft have been grounded.
>
>I admit, it does seem scary as they pass by, because they sound unusally 
>low.
>
>soei
>
>To: wwwac@...
>Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>
>anyone else hearing planes in the air? if so, does anyone know what they 
>are?


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: Duane Douglas
DATE: Tue 15:55
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

At 02:43 PM 9/11/2001 -0500, Jonathan Kopp wrote:
>I think there are fighter interceptors patrolling NYC airspace. Two 
>aircraft carriers and five warships have been deployed to the NYC area. It 
>seems likely that the Air Force has shot down at least one commercial 
>aircraft, so they're not playing around.

i was walking over the mahattan bridge around 2 pm.  i saw a battleship in 
the east river docked at pier 17.

if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && cold fusion 
&& xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Kim B. Foglia
DATE: Tue 15:54
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Military plane just went over my house realllllly low -- out on Long 
island!  Very scary!


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://www.galtcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: Duane Douglas
DATE: Tue 15:58
SUBJ: [wwwac] subway trains running

At 12:30 PM 9/11/2001 -0700, Timothy Embler wrote:
>I believe I heard letters are but numbers aren't.

number trains are running in BROOKLYN ONLY.

if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && cold fusion 
&& xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Jesse Erlbaum
DATE: Tue 16:09
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Hey Steve --

> The planes you're hearing are most likely American fighter 
> jets.  I saw 2
> F-16s (I think, a little rusty in this department) flying 
> over Manhattan
> earlier today.

I think they are F-15s.  Twin-tail, bubble canopy, delta wings.  Anyone get
a better view?


> BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
> defense *now* ?

Yes, yes, and yes!  At the most obvious level, if we took all that money we
spend on defense we could easily feed all the hungry people in the world.
Seems like a more sure-fire defense against this sort of thing than a risky
SDI pipe-dream.

One thing I am certain of:  This tragic incident will quite shortly be used
to grind everybody's political axe.  Whatever your issue is, I am sure this
will be used as "proof".

Regards,

-Jesse-








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 16:03
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

You are completely out of your mind.  20,000 dead in Manhattan and probably
several thousand dead in Washington and you're spouting this freaky whiny
claptrap - give me a break.

This sort of attention?  People are dead from this sort of attention.  This
isn't a protest against the WTO where people break a few windows of a
Starbucks, this is a catastrophic loss of human life and for you to belittle
it in this matter by railing against the "man" and his imperialist agenda is
sickening.



On 11-09-2001 15:44, "Tim" <wwwac@...> wrote:

> Sure do.
> 
> Having a scary military and imperialist agenda are exactly the sort of things
> that create these situations.  Maybe if our expensive defense apparatus had
> recognized and neutralized this threat, I'd be inclined to believe the money
> was well spent.
> 
> The way I see it, the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this
> sort of attention (assuming this was an international incident).
> 
> -THL
> At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Steve Sloan wrote:
> 
> 
>> BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
>> defense *now* ?
>> 
>> Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
>> Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
>> /********************************************************/
>>              Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
>>> To: wwwac@...
>>> Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
>>> know what they are?








FROM: Nathan Strutz
DATE: Tue 12:08
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?


According to slashdot, that would be the SS JFK and George Washington in
NYC.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duane Douglas <mailto:ddouglas@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:55 AM
> To: Jonathan Kopp
> Cc: soei@... wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>
>
>
> i was walking over the mahattan bridge around 2 pm.  i saw a
> battleship in
> the east river docked at pier 17.








FROM: David Choi
DATE: Tue 16:07
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

anyone know when we can get back into the city?? these subway trains are
only running out of manhattan?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Frieser <mailto:mark@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:04 PM
To: Tim; wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] planes still in the air?


You are completely out of your mind.  20,000 dead in Manhattan and
probably
several thousand dead in Washington and you're spouting this freaky
whiny
claptrap - give me a break.

This sort of attention?  People are dead from this sort of attention.
This
isn't a protest against the WTO where people break a few windows of a
Starbucks, this is a catastrophic loss of human life and for you to
belittle
it in this matter by railing against the "man" and his imperialist
agenda is
sickening.



On 11-09-2001 15:44, "Tim" <wwwac@...>
wrote:

> Sure do.
>=20
> Having a scary military and imperialist agenda are exactly the sort of
things
> that create these situations.  Maybe if our expensive defense
apparatus had
> recognized and neutralized this threat, I'd be inclined to believe the
money
> was well spent.
>=20
> The way I see it, the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US
this
> sort of attention (assuming this was an international incident).
>=20
> -THL
> At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Steve Sloan wrote:
>=20
>=20
>> BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on
national
>> defense *now* ?
>>=20
>> Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
>> Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
>> /********************************************************/
>>              Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
>>=20
>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
>>> To: wwwac@...
>>> Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
>>> know what they are?








FROM: Duane Douglas
DATE: Tue 16:08
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

At 04:03 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Mark Frieser wrote:
>20,000 dead in Manhattan

i heard an estimate of 50,000 dead.  this is not a far fetched 
number.  thousands of people were trapped in the wtc when the towers collapsed.


if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && cold fusion 
&& xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Gilbert Midonnet
DATE: Tue 16:13
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

------_=_NextPart_001_01C13AFE.2EBE9270
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="windows-1252"

capitalists? oh, right, another member of the idiot left who equates
capitalism with imperialism.

So I guess it was the left who've been criticised for being isolationists?
And here I thought it was the "extreme right-wing"  who wanted out of the
IMF,  who opposed sticking our noses into other countries internal affairs
(like Yugoslavia) and wanted to disengage from NATO and other "entangling
alliances."



    "The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in 
extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political 
connection as possible.  It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent 
alliances with any portion of the foreign world.
    --George Washington, Farewell Address, Philadelphia Daily American 
Advertiser, 9/19/1796.

    "Peace, freedom, and honest friendship with all nations--entangling 
alliances with none."
      --Thomas Jefferson, Inaugural Address, 1801.


-- gilbert midonnet



-----Original Message-----
From: Tim <mailto:wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:44 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: RE: [wwwac] planes still in the air?


Sure do.

Having a scary military and imperialist agenda are exactly the sort of
things
that create these situations.  Maybe if our expensive defense apparatus had
recognized and neutralized this threat, I'd be inclined to believe the money
was well spent.

The way I see it, the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this 
sort of attention (assuming this was an international incident).

-THL
At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Steve Sloan wrote:


>BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
>defense *now* ?
>
>Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
>Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
>/********************************************************/
>              Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
> > To: wwwac@...
> > Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
> >
> >
> > anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
> > know what they are?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------- 
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
confidential, proprietary or legally 
privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by
any mistransmission. If 
you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
copies of it from your 
system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not,
directly or indirectly, 
use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you
are not the intended 
recipient. 



------_=_NextPart_001_01C13AFE.2EBE9270--








FROM: Steve Sloan
DATE: Tue 16:18
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

And many people escaped.  

http://www.msnbc.com/news/627064.asp?0dm=N12QN

So let's all hope for the best, at least, the best of a terrible situation.

Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
/********************************************************/
             Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duane Douglas <mailto:ddouglas@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:08 PM
> To: Mark Frieser
> Cc: Tim; wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
> 
> 
> At 04:03 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Mark Frieser wrote:
> >20,000 dead in Manhattan
> 
> i heard an estimate of 50,000 dead.  this is not a far fetched 
> number.  thousands of people were trapped in the wtc when the 
> towers collapsed.
> 
> 
> if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && 
> cold fusion 
> && xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Bob Frankel
DATE: Tue 16:17
SUBJ: [wwwac] comments on violence & community

A short version of this went out earlier today, but never made to the list:

As a WWWAC Board veteran who has (and not alone) sometimes wondered about
his seemingly endless hours of unpaid effort, today's terrible events has
had one bright spot.  The outpouring of support, exchange of information,
volunteering of futons to spare bedrooms, etc., has been unrestrained and
reassuring.  Without any specific authority, I think I can say we are all
grateful.

Separately,

Although I generally try to avoid easy generalizations or attempts at wisdom
at such times, this is how I feel today:

Though not an original thought, it does reinforce the idea that as a species
we are better at accumulating knowledge than sense.  Given no perceived
positive outlet, people have always invented justifications for negative
ones.  Scale and technology just allow greater efficiency today.  We can
carry an umbrella when we expect it to rain, but when the unexpected tornado
touches down we can only duck for the nearest cover.  Violence has cycled
throughout the millennia of human "civilization" and it probably will
continue beyond any current comprehension.  There may be retribution to
mitigate some of the allure to the "actors" and we will design better
umbrellas, but there will always be both good and bad innovation and claims
of "in God's service" on all sides.  Few of us feel it close to home, but
all of us live on the playing fields of human nature.  And the lenses of the
actors are always too narrowly focused to be easily understood from any
other perspective.

Maritza and I have been very lucky.  We have two beautiful, healthy and
strong babies and - so far - no one we know fell victim today.  Two weeks
from now I was to moderate at least one industry panel at the World Trade
Center, in fact, I would have been there for two whole days.  Emotionally it
is poignant, yet statistically insignificant as a near miss.  I will not
live in fear, for then there is little left to protect.

Sadly and happily, we move on.

Bob Frankel








FROM: Duane Douglas
DATE: Tue 16:16
SUBJ: [wwwac] wtc 7 on fire and near collapse

according to wcbs 880 am

if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && cold fusion 
&& xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: David Glober
DATE: Tue 13:18
SUBJ: [wwwac] Re: Ease of use

i'm not sure i would know how to manipulate the flight deck, divert a 
large plane, and aim it specifically at individual targets, and given 
the symbolic significance of the targets, they seem to have been 
preselected indeed. most likely this involves highly skilled pilots.


Dave <dgoodman@...>:

>I may be naive, but I just don't see that it would really require that much
>effort to accomplish. I've never flown a jet, but a light plane that's
>already in flight is easy to aim. Getting a group of people on a plane
>without weapons, or with unconventional weapons that wouldn't be readily
>identified by xray, sounds easy. Hitting multiple targets within a half hour
>of each other sounds like they had wristwatches. I'd bet any one of us on
>this list, if so inclined, could do something similar (god forbid). The
>hardest part, to me, would be coming up with one person per plane willing to
>commit suicide. The others in each team could have been told that it was a
>simple hijacking without being told that it was a suicide mission. The cost
>would be the price of airline tickets and perhaps weapons.








FROM: Scott Rompala
DATE: Tue 16:13
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

F-15 Eagles.....there are at least two squadrons...

-s

At 03:27 PM 9/11/01 -0400, Thomas Walser wrote:
>anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone know what they are?








FROM: Andrew Gideon
DATE: Tue 20:19
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

In article <450BF163A931D4119C2B00D0B774183D3B1AED@...>,
	jesse@... (Jesse Erlbaum) writes:
> Hey Steve --
> 
>> The planes you're hearing are most likely American fighter 
>> jets.  I saw 2
>> F-16s (I think, a little rusty in this department) flying 
>> over Manhattan
>> earlier today.
> 
> I think they are F-15s.  Twin-tail, bubble canopy, delta wings.  Anyone get
> a better view?

For reference:

	http://www.zap16.com/f16_gallery.htm
	http://people.ce.mediaone.net/eldarshsh/f15.html

I've been listening in on air traffic in my area.  It's tough to
get much (I live in a valley), but I've heard at least 1 landing
at Teterboro and 2 at Newark as of about an hour ago.  

I couldn't tell though, whether these were commercial, corporate, 
or what.

There's a streaming audio site with JFK's tower, but I've been
unable to connect to it all day.  Centennial airport, where I
often monitor air traffic, is quiet.  

fboweb.com, which provides air traffic tracking, is reporting that
the FAA has cut the data feed.

	- Andrew








FROM: Tom Simpson
DATE: Tue 16:20
SUBJ: [wwwac] Manhattan bridge open

Foot traffic is open on the manhattan bridge, I just walked it into
Brooklyn.

Tom Simpson

"It doesn't make a difference what temperature a room is, it's always room
temperature."
- Steven Wright








FROM: Jonathan Kopp
DATE: Tue 15:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

There are tens of thousands of our friends and neighbors dead or injured. 
Can't we keep our fingers off each other's throats for just a little while?


>From: Gilbert Midonnet <Gilbert.Midonnet@...>
>To: wwwac@...
>Subject: RE: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:13:12 -0400
>
>capitalists? oh, right, another member of the idiot left who equates
>capitalism with imperialism.
>
>So I guess it was the left who've been criticised for being isolationists?
>And here I thought it was the "extreme right-wing"  who wanted out of the
>IMF,  who opposed sticking our noses into other countries internal affairs
>(like Yugoslavia) and wanted to disengage from NATO and other "entangling
>alliances."
>
>
>
>     "The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in
>extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political
>connection as possible.  It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent
>alliances with any portion of the foreign world.
>     --George Washington, Farewell Address, Philadelphia Daily American
>Advertiser, 9/19/1796.
>
>     "Peace, freedom, and honest friendship with all nations--entangling
>alliances with none."
>       --Thomas Jefferson, Inaugural Address, 1801.
>
>
>-- gilbert midonnet
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim <mailto:wwwac@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:44 PM
>To: wwwac@...
>Subject: RE: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>
>
>Sure do.
>
>Having a scary military and imperialist agenda are exactly the sort of
>things
>that create these situations.  Maybe if our expensive defense apparatus had
>recognized and neutralized this threat, I'd be inclined to believe the 
>money
>was well spent.
>
>The way I see it, the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this
>sort of attention (assuming this was an international incident).
>
>-THL
>At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Steve Sloan wrote:
>
>
> >BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
> >defense *now* ?
> >
> >Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
> >Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
> >/********************************************************/
> >              Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
> > > To: wwwac@...
> > > Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
> > >
> > >
> > > anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
> > > know what they are?
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----------------------------------------------------
>This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
>confidential, proprietary or legally
>privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost 
>by
>any mistransmission. If
>you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
>copies of it from your
>system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not,
>directly or indirectly,
>use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you
>are not the intended
>recipient.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 15:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Remember, there is a difference between excuse and explanation.  That is,
while our muddled foreign policy regarding the Middle East doesn't justify
these actions, you have to admit that things have been heating up over there
lately.  Our vacationing president has been notably silent the whole time.

Further, in terms of resource allocation, the money we are spending on
defense doesn't seem to be entirely effective.  It is unlikely that SDI
would have helped here.  Given that is the primary defense debate right now,
I'm not sure the amount of money is really the primary issue.

What is certain is that the SDI agenda has diminished our relationships
abroad.  Our non-activity in the Middle East has heightened tensions there.
It seems to me that if I were a terrorist, this might be a good time to
attack.  I think that thinking will prove to be in error, as justice will
probably be swift and severe and it will galvanize our allies abroad, but I
can see the logic behind the timing.

Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Frieser <mailto:mark@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:04 PM
> To: Tim; wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
> 
> 
> You are completely out of your mind.  20,000 dead in 
> Manhattan and probably
> several thousand dead in Washington and you're spouting this 
> freaky whiny
> claptrap - give me a break.
> 
> This sort of attention?  People are dead from this sort of 
> attention.  This
> isn't a protest against the WTO where people break a few windows of a
> Starbucks, this is a catastrophic loss of human life and for 
> you to belittle
> it in this matter by railing against the "man" and his 
> imperialist agenda is
> sickening.
> 
> 
> 
> On 11-09-2001 15:44, "Tim" 
> <wwwac@...> wrote:
> 
> > Sure do.
> > 
> > Having a scary military and imperialist agenda are exactly 
> the sort of things
> > that create these situations.  Maybe if our expensive 
> defense apparatus had
> > recognized and neutralized this threat, I'd be inclined to 
> believe the money
> > was well spent.
> > 
> > The way I see it, the capitalists and warmongers are what 
> earn the US this
> > sort of attention (assuming this was an international incident).
> > 
> > -THL
> > At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Steve Sloan wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >> BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend 
> on national
> >> defense *now* ?
> >> 
> >> Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
> >> Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
> >> /********************************************************/
> >>              Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
> >>> To: wwwac@...
> >>> Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
> >>> know what they are?








FROM: Scott Wickham
DATE: Tue 13:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] there won't be any Re: [wwwac] Looting?


--- Jonathan Kopp <xanthusleo@...> wrote:
> Has anyone in Manhattan seen any evidence of looting
> yet?
> I'm afraid it will be bad after dark. Stay indoors,
> y'all.
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


=====
Scott Wickham

74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt 
Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com    
for Sale by owner

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Tim
DATE: Tue 14:27
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

At 04:13 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Gilbert Midonnet wrote:
>capitalists? oh, right, another member of the idiot left who equates
>capitalism with imperialism.

Nice ad hominem attack, very thoughtful.

Where did I equate the two?  There are many capitalists who are warmongers 
- to deny this is a joke.  Military spending equates to profit for a great 
many people, and that spending needs to be justified somehow.

>So I guess it was the left who've been criticised for being isolationists?
>And here I thought it was the "extreme right-wing"  who wanted out of the
>IMF,  who opposed sticking our noses into other countries internal affairs
>(like Yugoslavia) and wanted to disengage from NATO and other "entangling
>alliances."

Nowhere did I say anything contrary to this.  Nowhere did I mention this 
being the fault of either "wing".  However, the idea that people are 
willing to go to such lengths to attack us because they're "jealous", or 
"fanatics" doesn't fly.  Many people in the world have what are, in my 
opinion, valid grievances to US activity.  While their actions are wrong, 
in my opinion, they are not completely unjustified from the perspective of 
some people.

Jeez.

-THL

>-- gilbert midonnet
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim <mailto:wwwac@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:44 PM
>To: wwwac@...
>Subject: RE: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>
>
>Sure do.
>
>Having a scary military and imperialist agenda are exactly the sort of
>things
>that create these situations.  Maybe if our expensive defense apparatus had
>recognized and neutralized this threat, I'd be inclined to believe the money
>was well spent.
>
>The way I see it, the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this
>sort of attention (assuming this was an international incident).
>
>-THL
>At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Steve Sloan wrote:
>
>
> >BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
> >defense *now* ?
> >
> >Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
> >Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
> >/********************************************************/
> >              Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
> > > To: wwwac@...
> > > Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
> > >
> > >
> > > anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
> > > know what they are?
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----------------------------------------------------
>This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
>confidential, proprietary or legally
>privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by
>any mistransmission. If
>you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
>copies of it from your
>system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not,
>directly or indirectly,
>use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you
>are not the intended
>recipient.








FROM: Duane Douglas
DATE: Tue 16:28
SUBJ: [wwwac] wtc 5 also on fire and near collapse

according to wcbs 880 am.

if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && cold fusion 
&& xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 15:29
SUBJ: [wwwac] wtc 7 on fire and near collapse

CNN is reporting that it may have already collapsed.

I've never been there.  Are these smaller satellite buildings?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duane Douglas <mailto:ddouglas@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:17 PM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] wtc 7 on fire and near collapse
> 
> 
> according to wcbs 880 am
> 
> if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && 
> cold fusion 
> && xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Andrew Gideon
DATE: Tue 20:34
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

In article <5.0.2.1.0.20010911142156.03e08378@...>,
	wwwac@... (Tim) writes:
> At 04:13 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Gilbert Midonnet wrote:
>>capitalists? oh, right, another member of the idiot left who equates
>>capitalism with imperialism.
> 
> Nice ad hominem attack, very thoughtful.
> 
> Where did I equate the two?  There are many capitalists who are warmongers 

There are many X who are Y, for many values of X and Y, and especially
with no specific definition of "many".  This is very unsound reasoning.

	- Andrew








FROM: Scott Wickham
DATE: Tue 13:35
SUBJ: [wwwac] view from the other side of the world

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,3-2001314514,00.html

=====
Scott Wickham

74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt 
Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com    
for Sale by owner

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 16:35
SUBJ: [wwwac] wtc 7 on fire and near collapse

Yes Shirly, there's several satellite buildings, and #7 is the newest and
largest.

I have friends who work right by it, so I have to call them and see if
they're all right.




On 11-09-2001 16:29, "Shirley, Scott" <SShirley@...> wrote:

> CNN is reporting that it may have already collapsed.
> 
> I've never been there.  Are these smaller satellite buildings?
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Duane Douglas <mailto:ddouglas@...>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:17 PM
>> To: wwwac@...
>> Subject: [wwwac] wtc 7 on fire and near collapse
>> 
>> 
>> according to wcbs 880 am
>> 
>> if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl &&
>> cold fusion 
>> && xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Gerard McGovern
DATE: Tue 21:36
SUBJ: [wwwac] view from the other side of the world

http://news.bbc.co.uk is very good too. Very representative of the UK.

Peace.

--

  =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95
  Gerard McGovern
  Webmonkey to the stars

    gerard@...
    http://www.inkiboo.com

  =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95 =BA =95

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Wickham <mailto:nylscottw@...>
> Sent: 11 September 2001 9:35 pm
> To: wwwac
> Subject: [wwwac] view from the other side of the world
>=20
>=20
> http://www.thetimes.co.uk/
>=20
>=20
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,3-2001314514,00.html

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Scott Wickham

74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt=20
Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com   =20
for Sale by owner

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!
Messenger http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Michael Estok
DATE: Tue 16:36
SUBJ: [wwwac] Re: Ease of use

actually i just heard an interview on NPR with a guy who writes about flying
and security.  he says just about anyone with alittle flight experience
could fly these planes, once they are in the air, and i would take hardly
any skill to aim them at a target.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Glober <mailto:glober-assoc@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:19 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: [wwwac] Re: Ease of use


i'm not sure i would know how to manipulate the flight deck, divert a 
large plane, and aim it specifically at individual targets, and given 
the symbolic significance of the targets, they seem to have been 
preselected indeed. most likely this involves highly skilled pilots.


Dave <dgoodman@...>:

>I may be naive, but I just don't see that it would really require that much
>effort to accomplish. I've never flown a jet, but a light plane that's
>already in flight is easy to aim. Getting a group of people on a plane
>without weapons, or with unconventional weapons that wouldn't be readily
>identified by xray, sounds easy. Hitting multiple targets within a half
hour
>of each other sounds like they had wristwatches. I'd bet any one of us on
>this list, if so inclined, could do something similar (god forbid). The
>hardest part, to me, would be coming up with one person per plane willing
to
>commit suicide. The others in each team could have been told that it was a
>simple hijacking without being told that it was a suicide mission. The cost
>would be the price of airline tickets and perhaps weapons.








FROM: Duane Douglas
DATE: Tue 16:40
SUBJ: [wwwac] wtc 7 on fire and near collapse

At 03:29 PM 9/11/2001 -0500, Shirley, Scott wrote:
>CNN is reporting that it may have already collapsed.
>
>I've never been there.  Are these smaller satellite buildings?

wtc 7 houses the ny office of the securities exchange commission.  its a 
brick red building on vesey st (across the street from the north tower).

if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && cold fusion 
&& xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Eric Swenson
DATE: Tue 16:06
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

I'm out in LI, too and saw the jets. I heard them from my office, but
just HAD to look outside -- just in case. I went to the King Kullen to
buy some groceries and noticed a big sign by the water dept.: "Water
Limit: 3 Bottles. Let's all stick together!"

That, to me, was scarrier. 

Is anybody talking about possible bio targets?

-- e.s.

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Eric Swenson + Swensonia! Consulting
P: 631 368 3917 + F: 631 980 4285
swenson@... + www.swensonia.com
AIM = swensonia + ICQ = 49568990


-----Original Message-----
From: Kim B. Foglia <mailto:wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:55 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] planes still in the air?


Military plane just went over my house realllllly low -- out on Long 
island!  Very scary!


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://www.galtcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: Stephen Gilliard
DATE: Tue 13:51
SUBJ: [wwwac] Looting?

The WTC is not a residential area and there will be a
ton of cops and soldiers in that area. Everyone else
is walking miles to their homes. The mindset now is on
getting home and finding out who might be missing.

Ripping people off is pretty unlikely after something
like this.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Jonathan Ezor
DATE: Tue 16:42
SUBJ: [wwwac] Interesting domain redirect

http://www.worldtradecenter.com -----> http://www.redcross.org

Wonder how/when that happened?  Probably, the owner of the domain name
redirected, perhaps at Red Cross request.  Glad to see things are happening
that way too.  {Jonathan}

-------------------
Jonathan I. Ezor
General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
e. jezor@...








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 16:54
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Twin tail double canopy planes are likely to be an F-18 hornet (like 
the blue angels)


At 4:09 PM -0400 09-11-2001, Jesse Erlbaum wrote:
>Hey Steve --
>
>>  The planes you're hearing are most likely American fighter
>>  jets.  I saw 2
>>  F-16s (I think, a little rusty in this department) flying
>>  over Manhattan
>>  earlier today.
>
>I think they are F-15s.  Twin-tail, bubble canopy, delta wings.  Anyone get
>a better view?
>
>
>>  BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
>>  defense *now* ?
>
>Yes, yes, and yes!  At the most obvious level, if we took all that money we
>spend on defense we could easily feed all the hungry people in the world.
>Seems like a more sure-fire defense against this sort of thing than a risky
>SDI pipe-dream.
>
>One thing I am certain of:  This tragic incident will quite shortly be used
>to grind everybody's political axe.  Whatever your issue is, I am sure this
>will be used as "proof".
>
>Regards,
>
>-Jesse-








FROM: Phil-Nicola
DATE: Tue 16:56
SUBJ: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?

Just a few questions:

At what time during the flight were the planes hijacked?

If the flight from Boston to NY is about 1.5hrs why wasn't there any news of
hijacked planes? 

Does the flight path to LA from Boston fly over NYC? if not how did those
planes slip by? You would think they would have be under suspicion if
tracked. 

If they did know of the hijackings why didn't we deploy fighter jets to
shoot them down or at least report the hijackings?








FROM: Dave Hodgkinson
DATE: Tue 21:50
SUBJ: [wwwac] view from the other side of the world


There are people in Bristol UK ready to lend a hand to any web-based
information gathering/relaying you need...

Is it all under control?


-- 
David Hodgkinson, Wizard for Hire            http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star           http://www.deep-purple.com
   Interim Technical Director, Web Architecture Consultant for hire
       --------------------------------------------------------








FROM: Tim
DATE: Tue 14:52
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

At 08:34 PM 9/11/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>In article 
><5.0.2.1.0.20010911142156.03e08378@...>,
>         wwwac@... (Tim) writes:
> > At 04:13 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Gilbert Midonnet wrote:
> >>capitalists? oh, right, another member of the idiot left who equates
> >>capitalism with imperialism.
> >
> > Nice ad hominem attack, very thoughtful.
> >
> > Where did I equate the two?  There are many capitalists who are warmongers
>
>There are many X who are Y, for many values of X and Y, and especially
>with no specific definition of "many".  This is very unsound reasoning.
>
>         - Andrew

Perhaps I should say "significant numbers" instead of many.  A not 
inconsequential quantity.  The military-industrial complex in this nation 
is massive.  Their profits are directly related to war, or the threat 
thereof.  These people, of whom there are "more than a handful" (is that 
ok?), in aggregate, command great wealth and power which they use to 
further their own (capitalist) agenda.  They promote war, and fear of war, 
in order to sell their products.  They have great political influence, and 
they are numerous.

I'm just talking about a non-infinitesimal number of people who would 
likely describe themselves as capitalists, who happen to be in the business 
of war.

What's so faulty about this?

What *is* faulty is suggesting that increased military spending is somehow 
going to "protect america" from this sort of thing.  That money could be 
better spent, IMHO.  Increasing the military budget is likely to increase 
US military involvment in foreign conflicts, which is likely to increase 
then numbers of terrorists interested in attacking us.  However, that 
spending will not defend us against such attacks.

This is a horrible, horrible day.  I can understand that we're all very 
emotionally charged about this.  However, I feel that many innocent people, 
just like me, have died as a result (though not complete or direct) of 
state policy over which they have little or no control, in comparision to 
the organized, monied, groups who stand to profit from unwise policy decisions.

-Tim    








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 16:57
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Well, Tim, not meaning to get into a flame fest here, but really, you did
equate capitalism with imperialism - read your own letter.

Paragraph 1: "scary military and imperialist agenda"

Paragraph 2: "the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this sort
of attention"

That looks very cut and dry to me - a military and imperialist agenda by
capitalists and warmongers?  Seems you do equate capitalism with
imperialism. And, warmongering.

Also, many warmongers are not capitalists.  Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Mussolini?
All socialists.  All warmongers.  Read your history, you'll be amazed.

Grievances to US activity? What do you mean specifically? Are you referring
to our actions in the Middle East? Have you ever been to the Middle East?
Have you seen the way these people are treated by their own insane
governments? For most of them, the freedom the "oppressed" Arabs have in
Israel is much greater than in any other country in the region.  There are
problems, but if you look at the realities, these suicide bombings and
terrorist attacks are fueled by a lot of meaningless propaganda.  More
Palestinians were killed by Jordan than were ever killed by Israel.

I want you to tell what grievance could justify what they did today.  Tell
me Tim.  A Nike plant in Indonesia?  A McDonalds in France?

Right now, as an American, this is of no matter to me Tim.  We are at war,
and we must defend ourselves by making the people who did this an example of
what not to do to the US.  Americans deserve their right to live too




On 11-09-2001 16:27, "Tim" <wwwac@...> wrote:

> At 04:13 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Gilbert Midonnet wrote:
>> capitalists? oh, right, another member of the idiot left who equates
>> capitalism with imperialism.
> 
> Nice ad hominem attack, very thoughtful.
> 
> Where did I equate the two?  There are many capitalists who are warmongers
> - to deny this is a joke.  Military spending equates to profit for a great
> many people, and that spending needs to be justified somehow.
> 
>> So I guess it was the left who've been criticised for being isolationists?
>> And here I thought it was the "extreme right-wing"  who wanted out of the
>> IMF,  who opposed sticking our noses into other countries internal affairs
>> (like Yugoslavia) and wanted to disengage from NATO and other "entangling
>> alliances."
> 
> Nowhere did I say anything contrary to this.  Nowhere did I mention this
> being the fault of either "wing".  However, the idea that people are
> willing to go to such lengths to attack us because they're "jealous", or
> "fanatics" doesn't fly.  Many people in the world have what are, in my
> opinion, valid grievances to US activity.  While their actions are wrong,
> in my opinion, they are not completely unjustified from the perspective of
> some people.
> 
> Jeez.
> 
> -THL
> 
>> -- gilbert midonnet
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tim <mailto:wwwac@...>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:44 PM
>> To: wwwac@...
>> Subject: RE: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>> 
>> 
>> Sure do.
>> 
>> Having a scary military and imperialist agenda are exactly the sort of
>> things
>> that create these situations.  Maybe if our expensive defense apparatus had
>> recognized and neutralized this threat, I'd be inclined to believe the money
>> was well spent.
>> 
>> The way I see it, the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this
>> sort of attention (assuming this was an international incident).
>> 
>> -THL
>> At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Steve Sloan wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
>>> defense *now* ?
>>> 
>>> Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
>>> Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
>>> /********************************************************/
>>>              Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
>>>> To: wwwac@...
>>>> Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
>>>> know what they are?
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>> This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
>> confidential, proprietary or legally
>> privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by
>> any mistransmission. If
>> you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
>> copies of it from your
>> system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not,
>> directly or indirectly,
>> use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you
>> are not the intended
>> recipient.








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 17:00
SUBJ: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?

Phil,

BOS-NY straight is only about 35 mins without landing and taxiing, so it
could have happened without a warning.

The flight path, though, I wonder... That's a great question.  I would think
no, but who knows?


On 11-09-2001 16:56, "Phil-Nicola" <parrot123@...> wrote:

> Just a few questions:
> 
> At what time during the flight were the planes hijacked?
> 
> If the flight from Boston to NY is about 1.5hrs why wasn't there any news of
> hijacked planes? 
> 
> Does the flight path to LA from Boston fly over NYC? if not how did those
> planes slip by? You would think they would have be under suspicion if
> tracked. 
> 
> If they did know of the hijackings why didn't we deploy fighter jets to
> shoot them down or at least report the hijackings?








FROM: Nathaniel R. Merriam
DATE: Tue 17:03
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?


the JFK and Washington are aircraft carriers -- we have half the navy
stationed here in VA, and they pretty much all pulled out this AM. The two
carriers are helping with air patrols and I think there are 5 battleships
with them.

God, is this really happening in america? talk of aircraft carrier groups
patrolling our coasts? We've got the air national guard flying around, and
people in the office getting called in for duty. Our airport is shut down
and only military planes are using the runways. State police have the
capitol surrounded and we just converted our PACU to a burn unit to treat
victims from the pentagon. We've got 30+ right now and expect probably a
hundred (or hundreds) tomorrow as they dig through. I can't wait to wake up
from this...

>
> According to slashdot, that would be the SS JFK and George Washington in
> NYC.
>
> >
> > i was walking over the mahattan bridge around 2 pm.  i saw a
> > battleship in
> > the east river docked at pier 17.








FROM: Mikki Monkolchayut
DATE: Tue 17:13
SUBJ: [wwwac] what will happen tomorrow

--============_-1211879710==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

I am safe but numb.

Of all the days, I planned to go to work early today.  Today should 
not have been the day.  I work midtown, but it effected everyone. 
All the trains were closed and it became hell to move around 
anywhere.  I have to say the police and waterway staff (ferry) did an 
amazing job keeping the city fairly calm.

As trains closed and sirens screamed, the crowded streets filled with 
people beginning to panic.  Police advised us to get home, but how??? 
On route to Hoboken, with the Path train closed, I found my way to 
the ferry at 38th along with a million other people.  All still in a 
daze, we waited on long long lines for the ferry and then stared at 
the smoke where the buildings once existed. 

I met so many people who worked for some WTC located firm and made it 
safely out of the building. (Thank god)  I was impressed on how 
people shared stories and helped each other, in sympathy, food, 
water, rides etc.

Home by 2pm, still trying to recover. My thoughts and prayers go out 
to all who have suffered.  I hope for the best, at least, the best of 
a very very terrible situation.

But now I must wonder, what will happen tomorrow????
-- 
Mikki Monkolchayut
http://www.msbuddhafly.com
http://www.thai-in.com
--============_-1211879710==_ma============--








FROM: Jonathan Kopp
DATE: Tue 16:09
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Something about the words "no--fly zone over New York City" makes my blood 
run cold.


>From: "Nathaniel R. Merriam" <NMerriam@...>
>To: "Nathan Strutz" <nathans@...>,   "Duane Douglas" 
><ddouglas@...>,   "WWWAC List" <wwwac@...>
>Subject: RE: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:03:49 -0400
>
>
>the JFK and Washington are aircraft carriers -- we have half the navy
>stationed here in VA, and they pretty much all pulled out this AM. The two
>carriers are helping with air patrols and I think there are 5 battleships
>with them.
>
>God, is this really happening in america? talk of aircraft carrier groups
>patrolling our coasts? We've got the air national guard flying around, and
>people in the office getting called in for duty. Our airport is shut down
>and only military planes are using the runways. State police have the
>capitol surrounded and we just converted our PACU to a burn unit to treat
>victims from the pentagon. We've got 30+ right now and expect probably a
>hundred (or hundreds) tomorrow as they dig through. I can't wait to wake up
>from this...
>
> >
> > According to slashdot, that would be the SS JFK and George Washington in
> > NYC.
> >
> > >
> > > i was walking over the mahattan bridge around 2 pm.  i saw a
> > > battleship in
> > > the east river docked at pier 17.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: carole guevin
DATE: Tue 17:11
SUBJ: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?

the latest update that could explain how this happened - is that *minutes*
before the plan crashed in the Pentagon - the wife of the Sollicitator
General lodge a cell phone call to her husband stating that they were
hijacked.

a) minutes before - so it means it was a *slow* deployment whereas time for
reaction was going to be impossible thus unavailable

b) we can presume that the caller didn't think they were going to ram in the
Pentagon - possibly - they were being hijacked to *somewhere* which perhaps
indicates a high level of discipline and self-control from the highjackers

c) there seem to have been one reported *hijack* situation from one of the 2
airplanes - seems pilots have those hidden buttons to alert - and again - it
was at the very last minute.

d) the billionnaire terrorist (which has in fact the means to support this
type of mission) living in Afghanistan - was reported on the French TV5
channel - to have written that he was going to systematically attack
americans and kill them.  also that 3 weeks ago - he bragged about doing an
out of the *area* major terrorist strike.

I think from the point of view on how the operation was conducted - and have
seen it as it was happening live on TV - these were l slickly planned
masterminded operations that didn't happen on the spur of a *hijacking*
inspiration by some lone fanatics... huge logistics - especially in being
capable of moving a 757 from its normal course to off course in minutes and
*hit* a target with such precision... I mean a tiny wheenie bit of mistake
and you miss altogether... so that kind of precision talks about huge
technology, terrain information, logistics and top notch navigators.

carole
 + concepts that talk + http://soulmedia.com
 + feed your eyes + http://netdiver.net
 + IDo + http://independentsday.org
 + think, dream, do + http://afterchaos.com








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 17:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] Anyone have any spare room?

I'm in Elmhurst, Queens. If anyone is stranded 
by LaGuardia Airport, I can accommodate a few
people...

--Amita








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 17:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?

This plane reached Albany airspace, then veered to NYC.

Mark Frieser wrote:
> 
> Phil,
> 
> BOS-NY straight is only about 35 mins without landing and taxiing, so it
> could have happened without a warning.
> 
> The flight path, though, I wonder... That's a great question.  I would think
> no, but who knows?
> 
> On 11-09-2001 16:56, "Phil-Nicola" <parrot123@...> wrote:
> 
> > Just a few questions:
> >
> > At what time during the flight were the planes hijacked?
> >
> > If the flight from Boston to NY is about 1.5hrs why wasn't there any news of
> > hijacked planes?
> >
> > Does the flight path to LA from Boston fly over NYC? if not how did those
> > planes slip by? You would think they would have be under suspicion if
> > tracked.
> >
> > If they did know of the hijackings why didn't we deploy fighter jets to
> > shoot them down or at least report the hijackings?








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 17:25
SUBJ: [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed

Huge building...just fell.








FROM: Tim
DATE: Tue 15:28
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Mark,

         Thanks for your very well-reasoned response.  I agree that I don't
         want a flame fest here, it's really not appropriate to engage in
         that tired rhetoric, though on reading my comments, I realize that I
         came perilously close.

         A few comments/responses below.

At 04:57 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Mark Frieser wrote:
>Well, Tim, not meaning to get into a flame fest here, but really, you did
>equate capitalism with imperialism - read your own letter.
>
>Paragraph 1: "scary military and imperialist agenda"
>
>Paragraph 2: "the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this sort
>of attention"
>
>That looks very cut and dry to me - a military and imperialist agenda by
>capitalists and warmongers?  Seems you do equate capitalism with
>imperialism. And, warmongering.

I can see where people got that idea.  What I suppose I meant was that there
are a significant number of American capitalists, who, in the course of their
business participate in lobbying for policies which I feel are likely to
increase the chances of war.  I don't think many people at all genuinely 
*want* war.  However, many want more sales/profit, and are willing to take 
risks with *our* safety to get there.


>Also, many warmongers are not capitalists.  Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Mussolini?
>All socialists.  All warmongers.  Read your history, you'll be amazed.

Again, I'm not saying that wanting a war is purely a capitalist 
phenomena.  I don't think I said that anywhere, and this is why I objected 
to Gilbert's massive generalizations about what I'd said.  I did *not* 
equate capitalists with warmongers, nor imperialsists.  That is to say, I 
do not think, nor did I suggest that they're equivalent.  However, from my 
perspective there is a significant group of American businesses which are 
engaged in a sort of cultural and economic imperialism (often called "free 
trade").  The motiviation is economic, I think.

>Grievances to US activity? What do you mean specifically? Are you referring
>to our actions in the Middle East? Have you ever been to the Middle East?
>Have you seen the way these people are treated by their own insane
>governments? For most of them, the freedom the "oppressed" Arabs have in
>Israel is much greater than in any other country in the region.  There are
>problems, but if you look at the realities, these suicide bombings and
>terrorist attacks are fueled by a lot of meaningless propaganda.  More
>Palestinians were killed by Jordan than were ever killed by Israel.

I agree here as well.  Regarding Palestine/Isreal, I don't support either 
side.  However, comparing isreal's mistreatment of indigenous people with 
that of other states in that locality doesn't get them off the hook.  And 
being persecuted by Isreal (ostensibly supported by the US - who's policy 
is influenced by those selling the arms that Isreal is buying (or perhaps 
we are buying for them)) does not excuse palestinians or anyone else to 
kill thousands of innocent american citizens.


>I want you to tell what grievance could justify what they did today.  Tell
>me Tim.  A Nike plant in Indonesia?  A McDonalds in France?

I don't know the answer to this.  However, I think that there is a reason 
(to my mind, unjustified) that people go on suicide missions.  That's a 
pretty big step, even for a pawn in someone's game.  For example, there are 
still a few palestinians alive who remember living pre-Isreal.  I can 
understand that, from their perspective, isreal is an army occupying their 
home.  They perceive the US to be a major supporter or Isreal.  Put 
yourself in their shoes, if you can.



>Right now, as an American, this is of no matter to me Tim.  We are at war,
>and we must defend ourselves by making the people who did this an example of
>what not to do to the US.  Americans deserve their right to live too

I agree.

I heartily denounce the actions taken today.  We *are* at war, but I think 
it's a war we could have avoided, but maybe not.  I sure wish we'd tried 
harder.

People in poorer countries might argue (however unconvincingly) that 
Americans do *not* have a right to live the lives we all do.  True or 
false, the perception is that our luxury is built on the blood, sweat, and 
tears of those who have next to nothing.  Whether they're right or not, 
they certainly don't perceive us as helping any.  Rather, they view the US 
economy as a major global force that perpetuates their suffering.

Maybe it's not about truth, it's about perception.



>On 11-09-2001 16:27, "Tim" <wwwac@...> wrote:
>
> > At 04:13 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Gilbert Midonnet wrote:
> >> capitalists? oh, right, another member of the idiot left who equates
> >> capitalism with imperialism.
> >
> > Nice ad hominem attack, very thoughtful.
> >
> > Where did I equate the two?  There are many capitalists who are warmongers
> > - to deny this is a joke.  Military spending equates to profit for a great
> > many people, and that spending needs to be justified somehow.
> >
> >> So I guess it was the left who've been criticised for being isolationists?
> >> And here I thought it was the "extreme right-wing"  who wanted out of the
> >> IMF,  who opposed sticking our noses into other countries internal affairs
> >> (like Yugoslavia) and wanted to disengage from NATO and other "entangling
> >> alliances."
> >
> > Nowhere did I say anything contrary to this.  Nowhere did I mention this
> > being the fault of either "wing".  However, the idea that people are
> > willing to go to such lengths to attack us because they're "jealous", or
> > "fanatics" doesn't fly.  Many people in the world have what are, in my
> > opinion, valid grievances to US activity.  While their actions are wrong,
> > in my opinion, they are not completely unjustified from the perspective of
> > some people.
> >
> > Jeez.
> >
> > -THL
> >
> >> -- gilbert midonnet
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Tim <mailto:wwwac@...>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:44 PM
> >> To: wwwac@...
> >> Subject: RE: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
> >>
> >>
> >> Sure do.
> >>
> >> Having a scary military and imperialist agenda are exactly the sort of
> >> things
> >> that create these situations.  Maybe if our expensive defense 
> apparatus had
> >> recognized and neutralized this threat, I'd be inclined to believe the 
> money
> >> was well spent.
> >>
> >> The way I see it, the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this
> >> sort of attention (assuming this was an international incident).
> >>
> >> -THL
> >> At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Steve Sloan wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
> >>> defense *now* ?
> >>>
> >>> Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
> >>> Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
> >>> /********************************************************/
> >>>              Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
> >>>> To: wwwac@...
> >>>> Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
> >>>> know what they are?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ----------------------------------------------------
> >> This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
> >> confidential, proprietary or legally
> >> privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or 
> lost by
> >> any mistransmission. If
> >> you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
> >> copies of it from your
> >> system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not,
> >> directly or indirectly,
> >> use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you
> >> are not the intended
> >> recipient.








FROM: Duane Douglas
DATE: Tue 17:25
SUBJ: [wwwac] wtc 7 just collapsed

according to wcbs 880 am.

if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && cold fusion 
&& xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Kim B. Foglia
DATE: Tue 17:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?

At 4:56 PM -0400 9/11/01, Phil-Nicola wrote:
>Just a few questions:
>
>At what time during the flight were the planes hijacked?
>
>If the flight from Boston to NY is about 1.5hrs why wasn't there any news of
>hijacked planes?

None of them were flights from Boston to NYC. Both United and 
American were flights from Boston to LA.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TRAVEL/NEWS/09/11/faa.airports/index.html


>Does the flight path to LA from Boston fly over NYC? if not how did those
>planes slip by? You would think they would have be under suspicion if
>tracked.

No, It goes over the Albany area, but the plane took a sharp dog leg 
south directly to NYC. They are wondering what air traffic 
controllers along the way were getting from it. They will be looking 
for the cockpit recorders in the debris.


>If they did know of the hijackings why didn't we deploy fighter jets to
>shoot them down or at least report the hijackings?

If they knew of the hijacking in progress, it does not mean they knew 
what the hijackers were going to do.


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://www.galtcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: Williams, John
DATE: Tue 17:21
SUBJ: [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed

how does this building compare in size with the others?

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Martin T. Focazio [SMTP:wwwac@...
> Sent:	Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:25 PM
> To:	wwwac@...
> Subject:	[wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed
>=20
> Huge building...just fell.
>=20








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 16:30
SUBJ: [wwwac] wtc 7 on fire and near collapse

It's not there any more.  I just saw it drop.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duane Douglas <mailto:ddouglas@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:40 PM
> To: Shirley, Scott
> Cc: wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] wtc 7 on fire and near collapse
> 
> 
> At 03:29 PM 9/11/2001 -0500, Shirley, Scott wrote:
> >CNN is reporting that it may have already collapsed.
> >
> >I've never been there.  Are these smaller satellite buildings?
> 
> wtc 7 houses the ny office of the securities exchange 
> commission.  its a 
> brick red building on vesey st (across the street from the 
> north tower).
> 
> if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && 
> cold fusion 
> && xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }
> 








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 17:32
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Hi Tim,

I totally understand you position. And, while I am not unsympathetic to the
injustices of the world, I think that today, I'm so horrified by the War
that's been started that I want to see action before words at this point.

All the best,

Mark


On 11-09-2001 17:28, "Tim" <wwwac@...> wrote:

> Mark,
> 
>        Thanks for your very well-reasoned response.  I agree that I don't
>        want a flame fest here, it's really not appropriate to engage in
>        that tired rhetoric, though on reading my comments, I realize that I
>        came perilously close.
> 
>        A few comments/responses below.
> 
> At 04:57 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Mark Frieser wrote:
>> Well, Tim, not meaning to get into a flame fest here, but really, you did
>> equate capitalism with imperialism - read your own letter.
>> 
>> Paragraph 1: "scary military and imperialist agenda"
>> 
>> Paragraph 2: "the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this sort
>> of attention"
>> 
>> That looks very cut and dry to me - a military and imperialist agenda by
>> capitalists and warmongers?  Seems you do equate capitalism with
>> imperialism. And, warmongering.
> 
> I can see where people got that idea.  What I suppose I meant was that there
> are a significant number of American capitalists, who, in the course of their
> business participate in lobbying for policies which I feel are likely to
> increase the chances of war.  I don't think many people at all genuinely
> *want* war.  However, many want more sales/profit, and are willing to take
> risks with *our* safety to get there.
> 
> 
>> Also, many warmongers are not capitalists.  Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Mussolini?
>> All socialists.  All warmongers.  Read your history, you'll be amazed.
> 
> Again, I'm not saying that wanting a war is purely a capitalist
> phenomena.  I don't think I said that anywhere, and this is why I objected
> to Gilbert's massive generalizations about what I'd said.  I did *not*
> equate capitalists with warmongers, nor imperialsists.  That is to say, I
> do not think, nor did I suggest that they're equivalent.  However, from my
> perspective there is a significant group of American businesses which are
> engaged in a sort of cultural and economic imperialism (often called "free
> trade").  The motiviation is economic, I think.
> 
>> Grievances to US activity? What do you mean specifically? Are you referring
>> to our actions in the Middle East? Have you ever been to the Middle East?
>> Have you seen the way these people are treated by their own insane
>> governments? For most of them, the freedom the "oppressed" Arabs have in
>> Israel is much greater than in any other country in the region.  There are
>> problems, but if you look at the realities, these suicide bombings and
>> terrorist attacks are fueled by a lot of meaningless propaganda.  More
>> Palestinians were killed by Jordan than were ever killed by Israel.
> 
> I agree here as well.  Regarding Palestine/Isreal, I don't support either
> side.  However, comparing isreal's mistreatment of indigenous people with
> that of other states in that locality doesn't get them off the hook.  And
> being persecuted by Isreal (ostensibly supported by the US - who's policy
> is influenced by those selling the arms that Isreal is buying (or perhaps
> we are buying for them)) does not excuse palestinians or anyone else to
> kill thousands of innocent american citizens.
> 
> 
>> I want you to tell what grievance could justify what they did today.  Tell
>> me Tim.  A Nike plant in Indonesia?  A McDonalds in France?
> 
> I don't know the answer to this.  However, I think that there is a reason
> (to my mind, unjustified) that people go on suicide missions.  That's a
> pretty big step, even for a pawn in someone's game.  For example, there are
> still a few palestinians alive who remember living pre-Isreal.  I can
> understand that, from their perspective, isreal is an army occupying their
> home.  They perceive the US to be a major supporter or Isreal.  Put
> yourself in their shoes, if you can.
> 
> 
> 
>> Right now, as an American, this is of no matter to me Tim.  We are at war,
>> and we must defend ourselves by making the people who did this an example of
>> what not to do to the US.  Americans deserve their right to live too
> 
> I agree.
> 
> I heartily denounce the actions taken today.  We *are* at war, but I think
> it's a war we could have avoided, but maybe not.  I sure wish we'd tried
> harder.
> 
> People in poorer countries might argue (however unconvincingly) that
> Americans do *not* have a right to live the lives we all do.  True or
> false, the perception is that our luxury is built on the blood, sweat, and
> tears of those who have next to nothing.  Whether they're right or not,
> they certainly don't perceive us as helping any.  Rather, they view the US
> economy as a major global force that perpetuates their suffering.
> 
> Maybe it's not about truth, it's about perception.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 11-09-2001 16:27, "Tim" <wwwac@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> At 04:13 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Gilbert Midonnet wrote:
>>>> capitalists? oh, right, another member of the idiot left who equates
>>>> capitalism with imperialism.
>>> 
>>> Nice ad hominem attack, very thoughtful.
>>> 
>>> Where did I equate the two?  There are many capitalists who are warmongers
>>> - to deny this is a joke.  Military spending equates to profit for a great
>>> many people, and that spending needs to be justified somehow.
>>> 
>>>> So I guess it was the left who've been criticised for being isolationists?
>>>> And here I thought it was the "extreme right-wing"  who wanted out of the
>>>> IMF,  who opposed sticking our noses into other countries internal affairs
>>>> (like Yugoslavia) and wanted to disengage from NATO and other "entangling
>>>> alliances."
>>> 
>>> Nowhere did I say anything contrary to this.  Nowhere did I mention this
>>> being the fault of either "wing".  However, the idea that people are
>>> willing to go to such lengths to attack us because they're "jealous", or
>>> "fanatics" doesn't fly.  Many people in the world have what are, in my
>>> opinion, valid grievances to US activity.  While their actions are wrong,
>>> in my opinion, they are not completely unjustified from the perspective of
>>> some people.
>>> 
>>> Jeez.
>>> 
>>> -THL
>>> 
>>>> -- gilbert midonnet
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Tim <mailto:wwwac@...>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:44 PM
>>>> To: wwwac@...
>>>> Subject: RE: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sure do.
>>>> 
>>>> Having a scary military and imperialist agenda are exactly the sort of
>>>> things
>>>> that create these situations.  Maybe if our expensive defense
>> apparatus had
>>>> recognized and neutralized this threat, I'd be inclined to believe the
>> money
>>>> was well spent.
>>>> 
>>>> The way I see it, the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this
>>>> sort of attention (assuming this was an international incident).
>>>> 
>>>> -THL
>>>> At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Steve Sloan wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
>>>>> defense *now* ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
>>>>> Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
>>>>> /********************************************************/
>>>>>              Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
>>>>>> To: wwwac@...
>>>>>> Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
>>>>>> know what they are?
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>> This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
>>>> confidential, proprietary or legally
>>>> privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or
>> lost by
>>>> any mistransmission. If
>>>> you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
>>>> copies of it from your
>>>> system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not,
>>>> directly or indirectly,
>>>> use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you
>>>> are not the intended
>>>> recipient.








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 17:36
SUBJ: [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed

Its about 45 stories


On 11-09-2001 17:21, "Williams, John" <jwilliams@...> wrote:

> how does this building compare in size with the others?
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:    Martin T. Focazio [SMTP:wwwac@...
>> Sent:    Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:25 PM
>> To:    wwwac@...
>> Subject:    [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed
>> 
>> Huge building...just fell.








FROM: stas
DATE: Tue 17:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] Does anybody know what time Nikkei markets open?


Thank you








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 17:41
SUBJ: [wwwac] Does anybody know what time Nikkei markets open?

I believe that ALL trading will be halted thru tomorrow. I assume this
includes Nikkei, but I could be wrong.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: stas <mailto:stas@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:39 PM
> To: Wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] Does anybody know what time Nikkei markets open?
>
>
>
> Thank you








FROM: l a u r a *^* l y n c h
DATE: Tue 17:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?

At 04:56 PM 9/11/01, Phil-Nicola wrote:
>You would think they would have be under suspicion if
>tracked.

BBC reported within an hour after the attack that the FBI had been aware of 
a hijack situation just prior to the first crash into the WTC. Since the 
FBI's priority in that situation is presumably not alerting the press, I'm 
not surprised we didn't hear of the situation earlier.

>If they did know of the hijackings why didn't we deploy fighter jets to
>shoot them down or at least report the hijackings?

Interviews with some muckety-muck from either an anti-terrorist 
organization or the FAA or some other org (sorry -- I've been watching 
updates all day and their all sort of blurring together) revealed that it's 
apparently illegal to destroy any commercial aircraft while it's airborne 
in the US. So even if they *had* been aware of the target(s), it's likely 
that at least one of the attacks still would have occurred while a decision 
was made.

FWIW, I've been switching back and forth between BBC and the local news, 
and the BBC is giving the least panicky and most efficient reports of 
what's going on (f'rinstance, they had already talked to the leaders of the 
PLFD [or whatever the acronym is] and found that the group didn't claim 
responsibility while everyone else was just starting to report the claim). 
However, the local stations have, of course, a much more personal angle 
going, with lots of local interviews and reporters that were in the area 
and such.


l a u r a *^* l y n c h
design doyen @ cyberwhirled
http://www.cyberwhirled.com
ICQ: 1797450 AIM: cyberminkie








FROM: l a u r a *^* l y n c h
DATE: Tue 17:17
SUBJ: [wwwac] who's responsible

At 01:55 PM 9/11/01, Jessica Elkin wrote:
>The one claim of
>responsibility has already been diregarded because the group was too small.

Actually, it was the group's headquarters that denied it.


l a u r a *^* l y n c h
design doyen @ cyberwhirled
http://www.cyberwhirled.com
ICQ: 1797450 AIM: cyberminkie








FROM: Tim
DATE: Tue 15:47
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

Mark,

         I appreciate the understanding.  I too am sympathetic, however I'm
         very afraid that this "war" is going to be a joke.  I fear that with
         everyone demanding action against an unidentified foe, we as a nation
         are perilously close to doing some very wrong things.

         Also, I fear that the impact on our freedoms and rights is going to
         severe, in the name of "protecting" us.  Any coordinated defensive
         effort that preserves our basic rights is likely to be effective.  Any
         effort that provides significant protection is likely to turn the
         country into a police-state.

         The way I see it, the only real option is to attempt to create 
positive
         relationships with those we, as a nation, have indirectly exploited.
         Rereading that sentence makes me realize how unlikely that is - after
         all, it's rare that you can please all the people all the time.

         I'm pretty scared, all around.

         Thanks for the dialogue.

Best Regards,


-Tim
At 05:32 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi Tim,
>
>I totally understand you position. And, while I am not unsympathetic to the
>injustices of the world, I think that today, I'm so horrified by the War
>that's been started that I want to see action before words at this point.
>
>All the best,
>
>Mark
>
>
>On 11-09-2001 17:28, "Tim" <wwwac@...> wrote:
>
> > Mark,
> >
> >        Thanks for your very well-reasoned response.  I agree that I don't
> >        want a flame fest here, it's really not appropriate to engage in
> >        that tired rhetoric, though on reading my comments, I realize that I
> >        came perilously close.
> >
> >        A few comments/responses below.
> >
> > At 04:57 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Mark Frieser wrote:
> >> Well, Tim, not meaning to get into a flame fest here, but really, you did
> >> equate capitalism with imperialism - read your own letter.
> >>
> >> Paragraph 1: "scary military and imperialist agenda"
> >>
> >> Paragraph 2: "the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the US this 
> sort
> >> of attention"
> >>
> >> That looks very cut and dry to me - a military and imperialist agenda by
> >> capitalists and warmongers?  Seems you do equate capitalism with
> >> imperialism. And, warmongering.
> >
> > I can see where people got that idea.  What I suppose I meant was that 
> there
> > are a significant number of American capitalists, who, in the course of 
> their
> > business participate in lobbying for policies which I feel are likely to
> > increase the chances of war.  I don't think many people at all genuinely
> > *want* war.  However, many want more sales/profit, and are willing to take
> > risks with *our* safety to get there.
> >
> >
> >> Also, many warmongers are not capitalists.  Stalin, Mao, Hitler, 
> Mussolini?
> >> All socialists.  All warmongers.  Read your history, you'll be amazed.
> >
> > Again, I'm not saying that wanting a war is purely a capitalist
> > phenomena.  I don't think I said that anywhere, and this is why I objected
> > to Gilbert's massive generalizations about what I'd said.  I did *not*
> > equate capitalists with warmongers, nor imperialsists.  That is to say, I
> > do not think, nor did I suggest that they're equivalent.  However, from my
> > perspective there is a significant group of American businesses which are
> > engaged in a sort of cultural and economic imperialism (often called "free
> > trade").  The motiviation is economic, I think.
> >
> >> Grievances to US activity? What do you mean specifically? Are you 
> referring
> >> to our actions in the Middle East? Have you ever been to the Middle East?
> >> Have you seen the way these people are treated by their own insane
> >> governments? For most of them, the freedom the "oppressed" Arabs have in
> >> Israel is much greater than in any other country in the region.  There are
> >> problems, but if you look at the realities, these suicide bombings and
> >> terrorist attacks are fueled by a lot of meaningless propaganda.  More
> >> Palestinians were killed by Jordan than were ever killed by Israel.
> >
> > I agree here as well.  Regarding Palestine/Isreal, I don't support either
> > side.  However, comparing isreal's mistreatment of indigenous people with
> > that of other states in that locality doesn't get them off the hook.  And
> > being persecuted by Isreal (ostensibly supported by the US - who's policy
> > is influenced by those selling the arms that Isreal is buying (or perhaps
> > we are buying for them)) does not excuse palestinians or anyone else to
> > kill thousands of innocent american citizens.
> >
> >
> >> I want you to tell what grievance could justify what they did today.  Tell
> >> me Tim.  A Nike plant in Indonesia?  A McDonalds in France?
> >
> > I don't know the answer to this.  However, I think that there is a reason
> > (to my mind, unjustified) that people go on suicide missions.  That's a
> > pretty big step, even for a pawn in someone's game.  For example, there are
> > still a few palestinians alive who remember living pre-Isreal.  I can
> > understand that, from their perspective, isreal is an army occupying their
> > home.  They perceive the US to be a major supporter or Isreal.  Put
> > yourself in their shoes, if you can.
> >
> >
> >
> >> Right now, as an American, this is of no matter to me Tim.  We are at war,
> >> and we must defend ourselves by making the people who did this an 
> example of
> >> what not to do to the US.  Americans deserve their right to live too
> >
> > I agree.
> >
> > I heartily denounce the actions taken today.  We *are* at war, but I think
> > it's a war we could have avoided, but maybe not.  I sure wish we'd tried
> > harder.
> >
> > People in poorer countries might argue (however unconvincingly) that
> > Americans do *not* have a right to live the lives we all do.  True or
> > false, the perception is that our luxury is built on the blood, sweat, and
> > tears of those who have next to nothing.  Whether they're right or not,
> > they certainly don't perceive us as helping any.  Rather, they view the US
> > economy as a major global force that perpetuates their suffering.
> >
> > Maybe it's not about truth, it's about perception.
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 11-09-2001 16:27, "Tim" <wwwac@...> 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> At 04:13 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Gilbert Midonnet wrote:
> >>>> capitalists? oh, right, another member of the idiot left who equates
> >>>> capitalism with imperialism.
> >>>
> >>> Nice ad hominem attack, very thoughtful.
> >>>
> >>> Where did I equate the two?  There are many capitalists who are 
> warmongers
> >>> - to deny this is a joke.  Military spending equates to profit for a 
> great
> >>> many people, and that spending needs to be justified somehow.
> >>>
> >>>> So I guess it was the left who've been criticised for being 
> isolationists?
> >>>> And here I thought it was the "extreme right-wing"  who wanted out 
> of the
> >>>> IMF,  who opposed sticking our noses into other countries internal 
> affairs
> >>>> (like Yugoslavia) and wanted to disengage from NATO and other 
> "entangling
> >>>> alliances."
> >>>
> >>> Nowhere did I say anything contrary to this.  Nowhere did I mention this
> >>> being the fault of either "wing".  However, the idea that people are
> >>> willing to go to such lengths to attack us because they're "jealous", or
> >>> "fanatics" doesn't fly.  Many people in the world have what are, in my
> >>> opinion, valid grievances to US activity.  While their actions are wrong,
> >>> in my opinion, they are not completely unjustified from the 
> perspective of
> >>> some people.
> >>>
> >>> Jeez.
> >>>
> >>> -THL
> >>>
> >>>> -- gilbert midonnet
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Tim <mailto:wwwac@...>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:44 PM
> >>>> To: wwwac@...
> >>>> Subject: RE: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sure do.
> >>>>
> >>>> Having a scary military and imperialist agenda are exactly the sort of
> >>>> things
> >>>> that create these situations.  Maybe if our expensive defense
> >> apparatus had
> >>>> recognized and neutralized this threat, I'd be inclined to believe the
> >> money
> >>>> was well spent.
> >>>>
> >>>> The way I see it, the capitalists and warmongers are what earn the 
> US this
> >>>> sort of attention (assuming this was an international incident).
> >>>>
> >>>> -THL
> >>>> At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Steve Sloan wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> BTW, anyone want to complain about how much money we spend on national
> >>>>> defense *now* ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Longbow(R)                            http://longbow.com
> >>>>> Java | SQL  | ASP | COM | C/C++ | VB | Delphi |  Perl
> >>>>> /********************************************************/
> >>>>>              Engineering The Information Economy (TM)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:27 PM
> >>>>>> To: wwwac@...
> >>>>>> Subject: [wwwac] planes still in the air?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> anyone else hearing planes in the air?  if so, does anyone
> >>>>>> know what they are?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------
> >>>> This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
> >>>> confidential, proprietary or legally
> >>>> privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or
> >> lost by
> >>>> any mistransmission. If
> >>>> you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
> >>>> copies of it from your
> >>>> system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You 
> must not,
> >>>> directly or indirectly,
> >>>> use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message 
> if you
> >>>> are not the intended
> >>>> recipient.








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 16:48
SUBJ: [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed

47, but it looked a lot wider, stockier.  Fortunately, it looks like
everyone had been evacuated.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Frieser <mailto:mark@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:37 PM
> To: Williams, John; wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed
> 
> 
> Its about 45 stories
> 
> 
> On 11-09-2001 17:21, "Williams, John" <jwilliams@...> wrote:
> 
> > how does this building compare in size with the others?
> > 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:    Martin T. Focazio [SMTP:wwwac@...
> >> Sent:    Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:25 PM
> >> To:    wwwac@...
> >> Subject:    [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed
> >> 
> >> Huge building...just fell.








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 16:48
SUBJ: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?

I heard earlier that the normal first step in a hijacking is to call in the
FBI hostage rescue team.  The assumption is that planes are hijacked to take
them somewhere, not use them as flying bombs.

Further, all the monitoring systems as separate.  So controllers in Boston
knew their plane was off course.  And those in Newark knew theirs was off
course.  But until you put it all together and take that leap to the most
horrific thing you can imagine, you still don't know what you're up against.

It looks like there was a very short time to react to this.  And really,
what would they have done about it?  Shoot them down?  They have to come
down somewhere.  Of course, maybe any other place would be better, but this
would be a tragedy regardless.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: carole guevin <mailto:carole@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:11 PM
> To: Phil-Nicola; wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?
> 
> 
> the latest update that could explain how this happened - is 
> that *minutes*
> before the plan crashed in the Pentagon - the wife of the Sollicitator
> General lodge a cell phone call to her husband stating that they were
> hijacked.
> 
> a) minutes before - so it means it was a *slow* deployment 
> whereas time for
> reaction was going to be impossible thus unavailable
> 
> b) we can presume that the caller didn't think they were 
> going to ram in the
> Pentagon - possibly - they were being hijacked to *somewhere* 
> which perhaps
> indicates a high level of discipline and self-control from 
> the highjackers
> 
> c) there seem to have been one reported *hijack* situation 
> from one of the 2
> airplanes - seems pilots have those hidden buttons to alert - 
> and again - it
> was at the very last minute.
> 
> d) the billionnaire terrorist (which has in fact the means to 
> support this
> type of mission) living in Afghanistan - was reported on the 
> French TV5
> channel - to have written that he was going to systematically attack
> americans and kill them.  also that 3 weeks ago - he bragged 
> about doing an
> out of the *area* major terrorist strike.
> 
> I think from the point of view on how the operation was 
> conducted - and have
> seen it as it was happening live on TV - these were l slickly planned
> masterminded operations that didn't happen on the spur of a 
> *hijacking*
> inspiration by some lone fanatics... huge logistics - 
> especially in being
> capable of moving a 757 from its normal course to off course 
> in minutes and
> *hit* a target with such precision... I mean a tiny wheenie 
> bit of mistake
> and you miss altogether... so that kind of precision talks about huge
> technology, terrain information, logistics and top notch navigators.
> 
> carole
>  + concepts that talk + http://soulmedia.com
>  + feed your eyes + http://netdiver.net
>  + IDo + http://independentsday.org
>  + think, dream, do + http://afterchaos.com








FROM: Karl Cooper
DATE: Tue 17:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] My Press Conference

Today the U.S. was attacked by terrorist forces in NYC and in our nation's 
capitol. These cowards have kicked the bear. The gloves are now OFF. (end of 
statement, no questions taken)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: Scott Wickham
DATE: Tue 14:50
SUBJ: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?

please ny bos  under 30 minutes. 

I used to comute to boston.


--- Phil-Nicola <parrot123@...> wrote:
> Just a few questions:
> 
> At what time during the flight were the planes
> hijacked?
> 
> If the flight from Boston to NY is about 1.5hrs why
> wasn't there any news of
> hijacked planes? 
> 
> Does the flight path to LA from Boston fly over NYC?
> if not how did those
> planes slip by? You would think they would have be
> under suspicion if
> tracked. 
> 
> If they did know of the hijackings why didn't we
> deploy fighter jets to
> shoot them down or at least report the hijackings?


=====
Scott Wickham

74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt 
Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com    
for Sale by owner

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Julian Laurent Harker
DATE: Tue 17:51
SUBJ: [wwwac] director question

Hi Folks,

I know this is the last thing anyone wants to think about right now, so 
sorry for the awful timing, but I have a quick director question...
I'm working on a project using video, and am having playback problems 
when making a pc projector.  The top half of the video is normal, and 
plays at the proper frame rate, while the lower part of the video frame 
flickers upwards leaving black where the video is not filling its alloted 
space.
The video is quicktime with sorenson compression.
It works fine on a G4, and works fine in the stand alone qt player on a 
pc.
My best guess is that it's a memory issue, but I was wondering whether 
anyone else had any similar experiences.
Thanks in advance, and sorry for the bad timing.
I hope everyone is ok.
Julian








FROM: Karl Cooper
DATE: Tue 17:52
SUBJ: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?

There was NO WAY to stop this.


>From: "Shirley, Scott" <SShirley@...>
>To: wwwac@...
>Subject: RE: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:48:10 -0500
>
>I heard earlier that the normal first step in a hijacking is to call in the
>FBI hostage rescue team.  The assumption is that planes are hijacked to 
>take
>them somewhere, not use them as flying bombs.
>
>Further, all the monitoring systems as separate.  So controllers in Boston
>knew their plane was off course.  And those in Newark knew theirs was off
>course.  But until you put it all together and take that leap to the most
>horrific thing you can imagine, you still don't know what you're up 
>against.
>
>It looks like there was a very short time to react to this.  And really,
>what would they have done about it?  Shoot them down?  They have to come
>down somewhere.  Of course, maybe any other place would be better, but this
>would be a tragedy regardless.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: carole guevin <mailto:carole@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:11 PM
> > To: Phil-Nicola; wwwac@...
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?
> >
> >
> > the latest update that could explain how this happened - is
> > that *minutes*
> > before the plan crashed in the Pentagon - the wife of the Sollicitator
> > General lodge a cell phone call to her husband stating that they were
> > hijacked.
> >
> > a) minutes before - so it means it was a *slow* deployment
> > whereas time for
> > reaction was going to be impossible thus unavailable
> >
> > b) we can presume that the caller didn't think they were
> > going to ram in the
> > Pentagon - possibly - they were being hijacked to *somewhere*
> > which perhaps
> > indicates a high level of discipline and self-control from
> > the highjackers
> >
> > c) there seem to have been one reported *hijack* situation
> > from one of the 2
> > airplanes - seems pilots have those hidden buttons to alert -
> > and again - it
> > was at the very last minute.
> >
> > d) the billionnaire terrorist (which has in fact the means to
> > support this
> > type of mission) living in Afghanistan - was reported on the
> > French TV5
> > channel - to have written that he was going to systematically attack
> > americans and kill them.  also that 3 weeks ago - he bragged
> > about doing an
> > out of the *area* major terrorist strike.
> >
> > I think from the point of view on how the operation was
> > conducted - and have
> > seen it as it was happening live on TV - these were l slickly planned
> > masterminded operations that didn't happen on the spur of a
> > *hijacking*
> > inspiration by some lone fanatics... huge logistics -
> > especially in being
> > capable of moving a 757 from its normal course to off course
> > in minutes and
> > *hit* a target with such precision... I mean a tiny wheenie
> > bit of mistake
> > and you miss altogether... so that kind of precision talks about huge
> > technology, terrain information, logistics and top notch navigators.
> >
> > carole
> >  + concepts that talk + http://soulmedia.com
> >  + feed your eyes + http://netdiver.net
> >  + IDo + http://independentsday.org
> >  + think, dream, do + http://afterchaos.com


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: Kim B. Foglia
DATE: Tue 17:56
SUBJ: [wwwac] the plane in PA...

My conjecture is that the plane that crashed in PA was supposed to 
hit the Pentagon...two planes for each attack.


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://www.galtcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: Karl Cooper
DATE: Tue 17:59
SUBJ: [wwwac] the plane in PA...

I believe the plane that crashed in PA was headed to the Sears Tower in 
Chicago. Pilot struggled and plane went down.


>From: "Kim B. Foglia" <wwwac@...>
>To: wwwac@...
>Subject: [wwwac] the plane in PA...
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:56:26 -0400
>
>My conjecture is that the plane that crashed in PA was supposed to
>hit the Pentagon...two planes for each attack.
>
>
>Kim B. Foglia
>Chief Creative Officer
>Galt Corporation
>http://www.galtcorporation.com
>631.756.0200 x204 voice
>631.756.0789 fax


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: Duane Douglas
DATE: Tue 17:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] what will happen tomorrow

At 05:13 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Mikki Monkolchayut wrote:
>I am safe but numb.
>
>Of all the days, I planned to go to work early today.  Today should not 
>have been the day.  I work midtown, but it effected everyone. All the 
>trains were closed and it became hell to move around anywhere.  I have to 
>say the police and waterway staff (ferry) did an amazing job keeping the 
>city fairly calm.

i was on the subway at 9:05 am at the wall st. station at the 2/3.  people 
got on the subway huffing, puffing and rambling about planes, explosions, 
wtc, and fire.  i got on the 1 at chambers st at about 9:15.  someone got 
on and explained what happened.  i got off at canal st. and i couldn't 
believe what i saw when i hit the street.  both towers were blazing with 
gaping holes and billowing smoke.  varick st was filled with people gawking 
in amazement.

i was on 6th av and broom st. when the second tower collapsed. i heard a 
loud boom.  i heard screaming and i saw people were running.  folks were 
scared and panicked.

a police officer told me that all bridges were closed to pedestrian 
traffic.  i stopped to think.  i quickly realized that i may not get out of 
manhattan for a long time.  so i went to the soho grand hotel.  no rooms 
were available so i put my name on the waiting list and i got some 
lunch.  i walked around soho dazed and in disbelief.

my condolences to those who have suffered great loss.  may the dead rest in 
peace.

i realize that we must go on in spite of what has happened.  i hope for the 
best, but fear the worse.

if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && cold fusion 
&& xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 18:04
SUBJ: [wwwac] Afghanistan??

Turn on CNN...Kabul is being bombed....WTF???








FROM: Larry Aronson
DATE: Tue 14:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Some random bits sitting in LA watching the news --

The hijackers did not necessarily need to have piloting skills. All 
they'd have to know is how to set the autopilot's altitude, latitude 
and longitude; Our GPS system takes care of the rest.

It's not hard to break airport security. Nelson Demille in "The 
Lion's Game" has a heavily armed terrorist moving around the country 
by chartering a plane to a small regional airport. Citing time, he 
has his unsuspecting pilot drive him from the General Aviation side 
of the airport to a commercial gate where he boards a commuter flight 
to a major city and transfers to a coast to coast flight without ever 
going through a metal detector.  Both American and United Airlines 
share terminals with their commuter counterparts.

I seem to remember an engineer telling me the WTC towers' anti-sway 
system consisted of large lead blocks floating in tubs of mercury on 
the upper floors. Can anyone confirm this? It would certainly help 
explain the way the buildings collapsed vertically.

I recently helped a friend put his art project online. It's a series 
of photos taken of the WTC towers from his apartment window over 
several months. For some dramatic images of what they used to look 
like, see: http://www.skiesofnyc.com/

My thoughts to all back in NYC -- l.








FROM: Thomas Walser
DATE: Tue 18:08
SUBJ: [wwwac] fallout

has anyone heard anything about the smoke and fallout from this thing?

the stuff is coming down all over brooklyn.  my friends got an airline ticket
and letterheads from the 100th floor of one of the buildings falling in his
back yard.

i've heard that the smoke is changing colors, which might indicate that some
kind of foreign chemical might be burning. -- just a rumor?








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 18:09
SUBJ: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?

FYI- ALL FBI hostage/terroist teams (50) were in Monterey, CA, for a
conference of some sort.

Shirley, Scott wrote:
> 
> I heard earlier that the normal first step in a hijacking is to call in the
> FBI hostage rescue team.  The assumption is that planes are hijacked to take
> them somewhere, not use them as flying bombs.
> 
> Further, all the monitoring systems as separate.  So controllers in Boston
> knew their plane was off course.  And those in Newark knew theirs was off
> course.  But until you put it all together and take that leap to the most
> horrific thing you can imagine, you still don't know what you're up against.
> 
> It looks like there was a very short time to react to this.  And really,
> what would they have done about it?  Shoot them down?  They have to come
> down somewhere.  Of course, maybe any other place would be better, but this
> would be a tragedy regardless.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: carole guevin <mailto:carole@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:11 PM
> > To: Phil-Nicola; wwwac@...
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?
> >
> >
> > the latest update that could explain how this happened - is
> > that *minutes*
> > before the plan crashed in the Pentagon - the wife of the Sollicitator
> > General lodge a cell phone call to her husband stating that they were
> > hijacked.
> >
> > a) minutes before - so it means it was a *slow* deployment
> > whereas time for
> > reaction was going to be impossible thus unavailable
> >
> > b) we can presume that the caller didn't think they were
> > going to ram in the
> > Pentagon - possibly - they were being hijacked to *somewhere*
> > which perhaps
> > indicates a high level of discipline and self-control from
> > the highjackers
> >
> > c) there seem to have been one reported *hijack* situation
> > from one of the 2
> > airplanes - seems pilots have those hidden buttons to alert -
> > and again - it
> > was at the very last minute.
> >
> > d) the billionnaire terrorist (which has in fact the means to
> > support this
> > type of mission) living in Afghanistan - was reported on the
> > French TV5
> > channel - to have written that he was going to systematically attack
> > americans and kill them.  also that 3 weeks ago - he bragged
> > about doing an
> > out of the *area* major terrorist strike.
> >
> > I think from the point of view on how the operation was
> > conducted - and have
> > seen it as it was happening live on TV - these were l slickly planned
> > masterminded operations that didn't happen on the spur of a
> > *hijacking*
> > inspiration by some lone fanatics... huge logistics -
> > especially in being
> > capable of moving a 757 from its normal course to off course
> > in minutes and
> > *hit* a target with such precision... I mean a tiny wheenie
> > bit of mistake
> > and you miss altogether... so that kind of precision talks about huge
> > technology, terrain information, logistics and top notch navigators.
> >
> > carole
> >  + concepts that talk + http://soulmedia.com
> >  + feed your eyes + http://netdiver.net
> >  + IDo + http://independentsday.org
> >  + think, dream, do + http://afterchaos.com








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 18:09
SUBJ: [wwwac] We are now bombing Afghanistan

According to the TV, we are now in the process of bombing Kabul, Afghanistan.

-- 








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 18:10
SUBJ: [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed

Isn't it amazing that these buildings were designed to implode when the
structural steel fails?

Shirley, Scott wrote:
> 
> 47, but it looked a lot wider, stockier.  Fortunately, it looks like
> everyone had been evacuated.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Frieser <mailto:mark@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:37 PM
> > To: Williams, John; wwwac@...
> > Subject: Re: [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed
> >
> >
> > Its about 45 stories
> >
> >
> > On 11-09-2001 17:21, "Williams, John" <jwilliams@...> wrote:
> >
> > > how does this building compare in size with the others?
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From:    Martin T. Focazio [SMTP:wwwac@...
> > >> Sent:    Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:25 PM
> > >> To:    wwwac@...
> > >> Subject:    [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed
> > >>
> > >> Huge building...just fell.








FROM: Ari
DATE: Tue 18:12
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire


CNN reports missile strikes in Kabul...

if we were smart, they'd also hit Damascus and Tripoli.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You're sharpening stones, walking on coals to improve your business acumen."

			 -- R.E.M. (Exhuming McCarthy)








FROM: Jim Conte
DATE: Tue 18:11
SUBJ: [wwwac] Too close to home


Photos from 69th Street and Grand Avenue in Maspeth, Queens
http://www.jimconte.com/911/

----------------------
-Jim
mailto:jim@...








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 18:14
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

According to cell phone reports from the PA oplane, a crew member was
stabbed. How about a glass knife?

Larry Aronson wrote:
> 
snip

> 
> It's not hard to break airport security. Nelson Demille in "The
> Lion's Game" has a heavily armed terrorist moving around the country
> by chartering a plane to a small regional airport. Citing time, he
> has his unsuspecting pilot drive him from the General Aviation side
> of the airport to a commercial gate where he boards a commuter flight
> to a major city and transfers to a coast to coast flight without ever
> going through a metal detector.








FROM: David Williams
DATE: Tue 15:14
SUBJ: [wwwac] WHERE TO DONATE/BOMBING HAS COMMENCED IN KHABUL...


Evidently, the response has been overwhelming, but I'm sure the hospitals
can use as much blood as they can get:

If you want to find a place to donate near you, call:

1-800-933-BLOOD

P.s.  CNN is reporting explosions in Khabul, Afganistan; I think we're at
war...

----------------------------------------
Dave Williams
http://dave.hero.com
917.653.3877








FROM: Suzanne Swift
DATE: Tue 18:14
SUBJ: [wwwac] fallout

From Cobble Hill, Brooklyn...

I just found an inter-office envelope from Smith Barney (7 WTC) on my fire
escape.  The air smells sharp and I've heard rumors but no facts as to the
chemicals it contains.  Would like to get some confirmed information if
anybody knows.

>has anyone heard anything about the smoke and fallout from this thing?
>
>the stuff is coming down all over brooklyn.  my friends got an airline ticket
>and letterheads from the 100th floor of one of the buildings falling in his
>back yard.
>
>i've heard that the smoke is changing colors, which might indicate that some
>kind of foreign chemical might be burning. -- just a rumor?








FROM: Duane Douglas
DATE: Tue 18:15
SUBJ: [wwwac] bush to address the nation at 9pm edt

according to cnn.com

if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && cold fusion 
&& xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Jonathan Kopp
DATE: Tue 17:16
SUBJ: [wwwac] fallout

Speaking of fallout...
They could have hit a nuclear power plant...


>From: Thomas Walser <tjwal@...>
>Reply-To: tjwal@...
>To: WWWAC <wwwac@...>
>Subject: [wwwac] fallout
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:08:03 -0400
>
>has anyone heard anything about the smoke and fallout from this thing?
>
>the stuff is coming down all over brooklyn.  my friends got an airline 
>ticket
>and letterheads from the 100th floor of one of the buildings falling in his
>back yard.
>
>i've heard that the smoke is changing colors, which might indicate that 
>some
>kind of foreign chemical might be burning. -- just a rumor?


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 18:16
SUBJ: [wwwac] We are now bombing Afghanistan

Some of the best hash in the world comes from there, comparable to the
Nepal temple balls.

Martin T. Focazio wrote:
> 
> According to the TV, we are now in the process of bombing Kabul, Afghanistan.
> 
> --








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 18:21
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

> if we were smart, they'd also hit Damascus and Tripoli.

Remember, we don't know who's doing it, it's not necesarily
us. I hope to god it's not. It could be some other nation/
crackpot organization taking advantage of the chaos in order
to take down the Taliban, which would be fine by me...








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 17:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Based on a cellphone call from one of the planes, they were only armed with
knives and box-cutters.

Again, I think this is partially attibutable to the expectations of a
hijacking.  If I thought my choice was between crashing and getting cut, I'd
take my chances with the knife.  But if I thought it would work itself out,
I'd sit and wait for the hostage rescue team.

As to the collapses:

http://slate.msn.com/Code/explainer/explainer.asp?Show=9/11/2001&idMessage=8
265

Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Aronson <mailto:larry@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:50 PM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] Holy Smoke 
> 
> 
> Some random bits sitting in LA watching the news --
> 
> The hijackers did not necessarily need to have piloting skills. All 
> they'd have to know is how to set the autopilot's altitude, latitude 
> and longitude; Our GPS system takes care of the rest.
> 
> It's not hard to break airport security. Nelson Demille in "The 
> Lion's Game" has a heavily armed terrorist moving around the country 
> by chartering a plane to a small regional airport. Citing time, he 
> has his unsuspecting pilot drive him from the General Aviation side 
> of the airport to a commercial gate where he boards a commuter flight 
> to a major city and transfers to a coast to coast flight without ever 
> going through a metal detector.  Both American and United Airlines 
> share terminals with their commuter counterparts.
> 
> I seem to remember an engineer telling me the WTC towers' anti-sway 
> system consisted of large lead blocks floating in tubs of mercury on 
> the upper floors. Can anyone confirm this? It would certainly help 
> explain the way the buildings collapsed vertically.
> 
> I recently helped a friend put his art project online. It's a series 
> of photos taken of the WTC towers from his apartment window over 
> several months. For some dramatic images of what they used to look 
> like, see: http://www.skiesofnyc.com/
> 
> My thoughts to all back in NYC -- l.








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 17:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] Afghanistan??

It's unclear where the explosions are coming from.  We may have done it, but
it could also be a part of the ongoing civil war.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amita Guha <mailto:bfift2girl@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:04 PM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] Afghanistan??
> 
> 
> Turn on CNN...Kabul is being bombed....WTF???








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 17:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] fallout

They say the smoke changes colors when you go from fire to collapse, smoke
to dust.  That's how they know when a building collapsed, even is you can't
see it through the haze.

Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Walser <mailto:tjwal@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:08 PM
> To: WWWAC
> Subject: [wwwac] fallout
> 
> 
> has anyone heard anything about the smoke and fallout from this thing?
> 
> the stuff is coming down all over brooklyn.  my friends got 
> an airline ticket
> and letterheads from the 100th floor of one of the buildings 
> falling in his
> back yard.
> 
> i've heard that the smoke is changing colors, which might 
> indicate that some
> kind of foreign chemical might be burning. -- just a rumor?








FROM: Jonathan Kopp
DATE: Tue 17:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] We are now bombing Afghanistan

It's actually not been confirmed that we are attacking Kabul. There is still 
an ongoing civil war in Afghanistan.


>From: "Martin T. Focazio" <wwwac@...>
>To: wwwac@...
>Subject: [wwwac] We are now bombing Afghanistan
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:09:28 -0400
>
>According to the TV, we are now in the process of bombing Kabul, 
>Afghanistan.
>
>--
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 18:24
SUBJ: [wwwac] fallout

Re: burning stuff/smoke/smells

You have a number of chemicals that result from the burning of the 
various construction materials.

Cyanide from the Styrofoam, Arsenic, and other nasty stuff.

Not to mention various soot solids, dust, certainly some asbestos 
dust from plumbing, mineral fiber from the drop ceilings.

Keep the windows closed.








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 18:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] Afghanistan??

Yeah, I'm confused by this as well. Has anyone admitted to doing this yet?!?
Since when do we shoot first and ask questions later?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amita Guha <mailto:bfift2girl@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:04 PM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] Afghanistan??
>
>
> Turn on CNN...Kabul is being bombed....WTF???








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
DATE: Tue 18:25
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
with a full military campain until we completely control the these nations.
 Syria and Iran should also be on the list.


Ruben

On 2001.09.11 18:21:47 -0400 Amita Guha wrote:
> if we were smart, they'd also hit Damascus and Tripoli.

Remember, we don't know who's doing it, it's not necesarily
us. I hope to god it's not. It could be some other nation/
crackpot organization taking advantage of the chaos in order
to take down the Taliban, which would be fine by me...




-- 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 18:31
SUBJ: [wwwac] Afghanistan??

OK had to respond to myself because I just learned that yesterday the leader
of the opposition to the Taliban (sp?) was injured or killed, so the attack
that is occuring now may very well be a retaliation on that and have nothing
to do with what went on in NYC today.

~Jessie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jessica Elkin <mailto:kvixen@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:27 PM
> To: Amita Guha; wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Afghanistan??
>
>
> Yeah, I'm confused by this as well. Has anyone admitted to doing
> this yet?!?
> Since when do we shoot first and ask questions later?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Amita Guha <mailto:bfift2girl@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:04 PM
> > To: wwwac@...
> > Subject: [wwwac] Afghanistan??
> >
> >
> > Turn on CNN...Kabul is being bombed....WTF???








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 18:32
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

I don't disagree with you, but I don't want
the Taliban coming after us with nukes or whatever
weapons they have...I sincerely hope that a coup is
going on over there right now...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:26 PM
> To: Amita Guha
> Cc: wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
>
>
> It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
> Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
> with a full military campain until we completely control the
> these nations.
>  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.
>
>
> Ruben
>
> On 2001.09.11 18:21:47 -0400 Amita Guha wrote:
> > if we were smart, they'd also hit Damascus and Tripoli.
>
> Remember, we don't know who's doing it, it's not necesarily
> us. I hope to god it's not. It could be some other nation/
> crackpot organization taking advantage of the chaos in order
> to take down the Taliban, which would be fine by me...
>
>
>
>
> --
> Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> http://www.brooklynonline.com
>
> 1-718-382-5752








FROM: Tim
DATE: Tue 16:37
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire


You're scary.

What good is that going to do?  Is that going to stop terrorists - hardly.

Is that going to incite more terrorist activity - almost certainly.

That's the problem with terrorism - you can't stop it with a war, no matter
how badly you want to.  All you'll do is KILL MORE INNOCENT PEOPLE, and incite
others to do so as well.  Fucking great.

-THL

At 06:25 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
>Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
>with a full military campain until we completely control the these nations.
>  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.
>
>
>Ruben
>
>On 2001.09.11 18:21:47 -0400 Amita Guha wrote:
> > if we were smart, they'd also hit Damascus and Tripoli.
>
>Remember, we don't know who's doing it, it's not necesarily
>us. I hope to god it's not. It could be some other nation/
>crackpot organization taking advantage of the chaos in order
>to take down the Taliban, which would be fine by me...
>
>
>
>
>--
>Brooklyn Linux Solutions
>http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>http://www.brooklynonline.com
>
>1-718-382-5752








FROM: Shirley, Scott
DATE: Tue 17:34
SUBJ: [wwwac] Afghanistan??

CNN reporting that this is not part of a US effort.  It wouldn't surprise me
if that turns our to be disinformation, but it's also likely that the Afghan
resistance is taking advantage of the opportunity.  Their spiritual leader
was killed on Sunday, apparently.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jessica Elkin <mailto:kvixen@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:27 PM
> To: Amita Guha; wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] Afghanistan??
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm confused by this as well. Has anyone admitted to 
> doing this yet?!?
> Since when do we shoot first and ask questions later?
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Amita Guha <mailto:bfift2girl@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:04 PM
> > To: wwwac@...
> > Subject: [wwwac] Afghanistan??
> >
> >
> > Turn on CNN...Kabul is being bombed....WTF???








FROM: carole guevin
DATE: Tue 18:35
SUBJ: [wwwac] info collated on Blood donations addresses + tel #

if anyone needs to see the information that was published earlier on the
list in numerous posts concerning - Red Cross blood donations + temp
addresses for blood collection + other pertinent phone numbers they are
listed on the what's new page of netdiver.net.

carole








FROM: stas
DATE: Tue 18:44
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

I would put Israel on the same list. They are just as trained to hate =
the Arabs as the Arabs to hate the Israelis.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>

It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
with a full military campain until we completely control the these =
nations.
 Syria and Iran should also be on the list.









FROM: Ari
DATE: Tue 18:43
SUBJ: [wwwac] Afghanistan??


yes, i forgot that an assasination attempt was made on the leader of the
northern alliance, the taliban's main opposition this morning.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You're sharpening stones, walking on coals to improve your business acumen."

			 -- R.E.M. (Exhuming McCarthy)

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Shirley, Scott wrote:

> It's unclear where the explosions are coming from.  We may have done it, but
> it could also be a part of the ongoing civil war.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Amita Guha <mailto:bfift2girl@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:04 PM
> > To: wwwac@...
> > Subject: [wwwac] Afghanistan??
> > 
> > 
> > Turn on CNN...Kabul is being bombed....WTF???








FROM: Duane Douglas
DATE: Tue 18:43
SUBJ: [wwwac] us military press conference in a few minutes

according to cnn

if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && cold fusion 
&& xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Jonathan Kopp
DATE: Tue 17:44
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

Consider:
Do we really want general war with the muslim world?
We could kiss nuclear-capable India and Pakistan good-bye in that case.


>From: "Amita Guha" <bfift2girl@...>
>To: "Brooklyn Linux Solutions" <ruben@...>
>CC: <wwwac@...>
>Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:32:41 -0400
>
>I don't disagree with you, but I don't want
>the Taliban coming after us with nukes or whatever
>weapons they have...I sincerely hope that a coup is
>going on over there right now...
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:26 PM
> > To: Amita Guha
> > Cc: wwwac@...
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
> >
> >
> > It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
> > Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
> > with a full military campain until we completely control the
> > these nations.
> >  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.
> >
> >
> > Ruben
> >
> > On 2001.09.11 18:21:47 -0400 Amita Guha wrote:
> > > if we were smart, they'd also hit Damascus and Tripoli.
> >
> > Remember, we don't know who's doing it, it's not necesarily
> > us. I hope to god it's not. It could be some other nation/
> > crackpot organization taking advantage of the chaos in order
> > to take down the Taliban, which would be fine by me...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> > http://www.brooklynonline.com
> >
> > 1-718-382-5752


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: Steve Manes
DATE: Tue 18:50
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

At 04:09 PM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>I think they are F-15s.  Twin-tail, bubble canopy, delta wings.  Anyone get
>a better view?

I saw F16s, F15s and FA18s, some carrying what looked like Sidewinders (I 
presume) under the wings.

-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
DATE: Tue 18:48
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

Really - That's a crock of shit.  Israel has never been on the State
Departments List of terrorist nations.  Israel has Arad citizens.  Arabs
have demanded all Arab nations to be Jew Free.

You've just been waiting to blame this on Jews....


On 2001.09.11 18:44:15 -0400 stas wrote:
I would put Israel on the same list. They are just as trained to hate the
Arabs as the Arabs to hate the Israelis.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>

It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
with a full military campain until we completely control the these nations.
 Syria and Iran should also be on the list.



-- 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: Ari
DATE: Tue 18:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire


that's unfair. we're getting a taste in macro scale of what the israeli's
have been dealing with for 50+ years.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You're sharpening stones, walking on coals to improve your business acumen."

			 -- R.E.M. (Exhuming McCarthy)

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, stas wrote:

> I would put Israel on the same list. They are just as trained to hate the Arabs as the Arabs to hate the Israelis.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> 
> It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
> Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
> with a full military campain until we completely control the these nations.
>  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
DATE: Tue 18:50
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

Syria, Iran, Iraq, and Afganastan have already declared war on us.


So where is the CHOICE...


Ruben
__________________________________

On 2001.09.11 18:44:53 -0400 Jonathan Kopp wrote:
Consider:
Do we really want general war with the muslim world?
We could kiss nuclear-capable India and Pakistan good-bye in that case.


>From: "Amita Guha" <bfift2girl@...>
>To: "Brooklyn Linux Solutions" <ruben@...>
>CC: <wwwac@...>
>Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:32:41 -0400
>
>I don't disagree with you, but I don't want
>the Taliban coming after us with nukes or whatever
>weapons they have...I sincerely hope that a coup is
>going on over there right now...
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:26 PM
> > To: Amita Guha
> > Cc: wwwac@...
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
> >
> >
> > It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
> > Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be
occupied,
> > with a full military campain until we completely control the
> > these nations.
> >  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.
> >
> >
> > Ruben
> >
> > On 2001.09.11 18:21:47 -0400 Amita Guha wrote:
> > > if we were smart, they'd also hit Damascus and Tripoli.
> >
> > Remember, we don't know who's doing it, it's not necesarily
> > us. I hope to god it's not. It could be some other nation/
> > crackpot organization taking advantage of the chaos in order
> > to take down the Taliban, which would be fine by me...
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> > http://www.brooklynonline.com
> >
> > 1-718-382-5752
> >


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



-- 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 18:51
SUBJ: [wwwac] PBS coverage

You really need to watch the PBS coveerage of this event. The interviews
are reasoned, in depth, and not vein-bulging inflammatory. Even Dick
Shelby (R-AL) gave reasoned responses to questions.








FROM: Steve Manes
DATE: Tue 18:54
SUBJ: [wwwac] Looting?

At 01:51 PM 9/11/01 -0700, you wrote:
>The WTC is not a residential area

Unless you consider the thousands of people who live in Battery Park City 
across the street.

-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
DATE: Tue 18:53
SUBJ: [wwwac] Re: [nylug-talk] PBS coverage

They are off the air.  All I can get is CBS.


Ruben

On 2001.09.11 18:51:19 -0400 KNOdom wrote:
You really need to watch the PBS coveerage of this event. The interviews
are reasoned, in depth, and not vein-bulging inflammatory. Even Dick
Shelby (R-AL) gave reasoned responses to questions.


-- 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 18:57
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

I didn't see that as a jab at jews and I'm Jewish. I think we're all really
upset right now and you're taking this in a direction that is totally
unnecessary.

Right now, we're all REALLY scared and angry about what has happened in New
York City. Let's all try to keep flaming at a minimum.

~Jessica

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:49 PM
> To: stas
> Cc: Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
>
>
> Really - That's a crock of shit.  Israel has never been on the State
> Departments List of terrorist nations.  Israel has Arad citizens.  Arabs
> have demanded all Arab nations to be Jew Free.
>
> You've just been waiting to blame this on Jews....
>
>
> On 2001.09.11 18:44:15 -0400 stas wrote:
> I would put Israel on the same list. They are just as trained to hate the
> Arabs as the Arabs to hate the Israelis.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
>
> It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
> Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
> with a full military campain until we completely control the
> these nations.
>  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.
>
>
>
> --
> Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> http://www.brooklynonline.com
>
> 1-718-382-5752








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 17:58
SUBJ: [wwwac] wtc

Hey, I don't want to contribute to the rumor mill, but someone on another
list stated that the people who were arrested for the original wtc bombing
a few years ago was supposed to go on trial tomorrow across the street
from the wtc?








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO
DATE: Tue 18:59
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire



You don't accidently equate Israel with a terrorist state that would
make it's best effort to exterminate 100,000 people.


It's not a mistake or a result of hieghtened nerves.

It's a result of anti-semitism....

Ruben

> I didn't see that as a jab at jews and I'm Jewish. I think we're all really
> upset right now and you're taking this in a direction that is totally
> unnecessary.
> 
> Right now, we're all REALLY scared and angry about what has happened in New
> York City. Let's all try to keep flaming at a minimum.
> 
> ~Jessica
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:49 PM
> > To: stas
> > Cc: Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
> >
> >
> > Really - That's a crock of shit.  Israel has never been on the State
> > Departments List of terrorist nations.  Israel has Arad citizens.  Arabs
> > have demanded all Arab nations to be Jew Free.
> >
> > You've just been waiting to blame this on Jews....
> >
> >
> > On 2001.09.11 18:44:15 -0400 stas wrote:
> > I would put Israel on the same list. They are just as trained to hate the
> > Arabs as the Arabs to hate the Israelis.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> >
> > It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
> > Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
> > with a full military campain until we completely control the
> > these nations.
> >  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> > http://www.brooklynonline.com
> >
> > 1-718-382-5752








FROM: Jason Wiener
DATE: Tue 19:00
SUBJ: [wwwac] emergency spare room-- SF


If there are any wwwacies stuck in San Francisco because of the plane
clampdown, please let me know. I can offer a bed for the night.

Jas
415.626.9662


On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Jonathan Ezor wrote:

> Again in the "what can we do" department, I'm imagining that some WWWACies
> may be stranded in Manhattan if the crossings remain closed.  Anyone have
> some free beds or floor space to house folks?
>
> -------------------
> Jonathan I. Ezor
> General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
> T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
> e. jezor@...








FROM: Joanna Wissinger
DATE: Tue 18:55
SUBJ: [wwwac] fallout

here in windsor terrace there is a light particulate film all over 
everything. I can see the smoke plume from my living room 
window--north and west of me. it was black until the towers 
collapsed, it's been white since then. The sky is totally obscured 
but I've been hearing planes fly over all day, I assume military 
planes.

I spoke with a friend who lives in the heights and she said there is 
debris in the streets there.


At 6:08 PM -0400 9/11/01, Thomas Walser wrote:
>has anyone heard anything about the smoke and fallout from this thing?
>
>the stuff is coming down all over brooklyn.  my friends got an airline ticket
>and letterheads from the 100th floor of one of the buildings falling in his
>back yard.
>
>i've heard that the smoke is changing colors, which might indicate that some
>kind of foreign chemical might be burning. -- just a rumor?


-- 
Joanna Wissinger
c 917 407 6825 im joannawnyc web http://joannaw.com
content strategy/information architecture/competitive intelligence
what is "ubiquitous platforms"? find out at http://www.joannaw.com/ubiq








FROM: Steve Manes
DATE: Tue 19:06
SUBJ: [wwwac] wtc

At 05:58 PM 9/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey, I don't want to contribute to the rumor mill, but someone on another
>list stated that the people who were arrested for the original wtc bombing
>a few years ago was supposed to go on trial tomorrow across the street
>from the wtc?

They already had their trial in '98.  Ramzi Yousef and his group of six 
were each sentenced to 240 years.

-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Inthereal
DATE: Tue 18:03
SUBJ: [wwwac] emergency spare room-- Minneapolis

If anyone is stranded here.  Lemme know.


On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Jason Wiener wrote:

> 
> If there are any wwwacies stuck in San Francisco because of the plane
> clampdown, please let me know. I can offer a bed for the night.
> 
> Jas
> 415.626.9662
> 
> 
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Jonathan Ezor wrote:
> 
> > Again in the "what can we do" department, I'm imagining that some WWWACies
> > may be stranded in Manhattan if the crossings remain closed.  Anyone have
> > some free beds or floor space to house folks?
> >
> > -------------------
> > Jonathan I. Ezor
> > General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
> > T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
> > e. jezor@...








FROM: Duane Douglas
DATE: Tue 19:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] lower manhattan closed tomorrow

below 14th st.  it might be a few days before it's open again.

if (duane.douglas) { technologies = asp && php && cgi_perl && cold fusion 
&& xml && xsl && sql server && mysql && javascript }








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 19:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] Does anybody know what time Nikkei markets open?

8PM tonight.



On 11-09-2001 17:41, "Jessica Elkin" <kvixen@...> wrote:

> I believe that ALL trading will be halted thru tomorrow. I assume this
> includes Nikkei, but I could be wrong.
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stas <mailto:stas@...>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:39 PM
>> To: Wwwac@...
>> Subject: [wwwac] Does anybody know what time Nikkei markets open?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you








FROM: mike dizon
DATE: Tue 19:06
SUBJ: [wwwac] wtc

if its not on CNN don't believe what you hear -- especially over the
internet

MD
----- Original Message -----
From: <grimmwerks@...>
To: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:58 PM
Subject: [wwwac] wtc


> Hey, I don't want to contribute to the rumor mill, but someone on another
> list stated that the people who were arrested for the original wtc bombing
> a few years ago was supposed to go on trial tomorrow across the street
> from the wtc?








FROM: Sue K
DATE: Tue 13:31
SUBJ: [wwwac] Is LIRR running out of NYC??

They're restarting limited service from Penn and Brooklyn.  From mta's
website, www.mnr.org:

September 11, 2001
1:15 PM

Please click your browser's RELOAD or REFRESH button to ensure you have the
latest update.

Penn Station has been reopened and limited eastbound service will resume
shortly. Passengers may
experience some delays entering the station as there may be entrances
cordoned off by the police to
                     curb any potential crowding.

                     Limited eastbound LIRR train service continues from
Atlantic Avenue, in Brooklyn and Hunterspoint
                     Avenue, in Queens. In addition limited service
continues for Port Washington customers ONLY from
                     Woodside Station in Queens.

                     At the Governor's direction, no fares are being
collected.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kim B. Foglia <mailto:wwwac@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:06 PM
> To: WWWAC list
> Subject: [wwwac] Is LIRR running out of NYC??
>
>
> My husband is stuck at NYU.
>
>
> Kim B. Foglia
> Chief Creative Officer
> Galt Corporation
> http://www.galtcorporation.com
> 631.756.0200 x204 voice
> 631.756.0789 fax








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 19:10
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

I'm not going to try to defend someone I don't know nor will I assume that
they are an anti-semite because of a sentence that they wrote in an e-mail.

The last time I checked there are both jews and those of the islamic/muslim
faiths living in Israel. My point is that the person you attacked in your
e-mail never brought up religion. You did and your comment, "You've been
waiting to blame this on Jews...", was totally unnecessary. This is the
first time that religion has really been brought up today and you were the
one who did so.

And now you're attacking me which is also uncalled for. Let's not start
fighting on the wwwac list about religion since it has nothing to do with
the list. That is ALL that I'm saying.

~Jessica

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO <mailto:ruben@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:59 PM
> To: Jessica Elkin
> Cc: Brooklyn Linux Solutions; stas; Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] kabul on fire
>
>
>
>
> You don't accidently equate Israel with a terrorist state that would
> make it's best effort to exterminate 100,000 people.
>
>
> It's not a mistake or a result of hieghtened nerves.
>
> It's a result of anti-semitism....
>
> Ruben
>
> > I didn't see that as a jab at jews and I'm Jewish. I think
> we're all really
> > upset right now and you're taking this in a direction that is totally
> > unnecessary.
> >
> > Right now, we're all REALLY scared and angry about what has
> happened in New
> > York City. Let's all try to keep flaming at a minimum.
> >
> > ~Jessica
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:49 PM
> > > To: stas
> > > Cc: Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
> > > Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
> > >
> > >
> > > Really - That's a crock of shit.  Israel has never been on the State
> > > Departments List of terrorist nations.  Israel has Arad
> citizens.  Arabs
> > > have demanded all Arab nations to be Jew Free.
> > >
> > > You've just been waiting to blame this on Jews....
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2001.09.11 18:44:15 -0400 stas wrote:
> > > I would put Israel on the same list. They are just as trained
> to hate the
> > > Arabs as the Arabs to hate the Israelis.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> > >
> > > It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
> > > Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should
> be occupied,
> > > with a full military campain until we completely control the
> > > these nations.
> > >  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> > http://www.brooklynonline.com
> >
> > 1-718-382-5752








FROM: Daniel G. Magni
DATE: Tue 19:27
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire


Enough already.

It seems to me that everyone is forgetting which side of the ponds we are on
now. The planes didn't land in Tel Aviv or Damascus or Baghdad - they landed
at 1-2 WTC.

The best I can tell, everyone responding to this list is doing so on this
side of the pond. That makes you an American - either by birth or by
adoption. It's nice to respect our roots but more important to respect the
life you're living now, the land that you are living it on and the idea
that, in spite of ALL of those differences, that we didn't do this to
ourselves. Whoever did this is evil, regardless of religious beliefs and
location. Get over that.

Let's get on with fixing the broken pieces of the city we love and helping
those that need it now.

Many WWWAC folks are helping. Any WWWAC folks stuck in Boston or north of
just need call - we will take care of them.

My best,
Dan


Daniel G. Magni
President/CEO
BeaconVision Incorporated
337 Amherst Street, Suite 5
Nashua, New Hampshire 03063-1723
Office   (603) 595.2200
FAX      (603) 595.2348  Virtual FAX (240) 384.8646
Cellular (603) 620.1800
mailto:dan.magni@...
http://www.beaconvision.com/
Live free or die!



 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Jessica Elkin <mailto:kvixen@...>
Sent:	Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:57 PM
To:	Brooklyn Linux Solutions; stas
Cc:	Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
Subject:	RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire

I didn't see that as a jab at jews and I'm Jewish. I think we're all really
upset right now and you're taking this in a direction that is totally
unnecessary.

Right now, we're all REALLY scared and angry about what has happened in New
York City. Let's all try to keep flaming at a minimum.

~Jessica

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:49 PM
> To: stas
> Cc: Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
>
>
> Really - That's a crock of shit.  Israel has never been on the State
> Departments List of terrorist nations.  Israel has Arad citizens.  Arabs
> have demanded all Arab nations to be Jew Free.
>
> You've just been waiting to blame this on Jews....
>
>
> On 2001.09.11 18:44:15 -0400 stas wrote:
> I would put Israel on the same list. They are just as trained to hate the
> Arabs as the Arabs to hate the Israelis.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
>
> It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
> Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
> with a full military campain until we completely control the
> these nations.
>  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.
>
>
> --
> Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> http://www.brooklynonline.com
>
> 1-718-382-5752








FROM: Ari
DATE: Tue 19:17
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire


fair points.

the fact is, we're all in this together and i have the sneaking suspicion
that there's more to come...



On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Daniel G. Magni wrote:

> 
> Enough already.
> 
> It seems to me that everyone is forgetting which side of the ponds we are on
> now. The planes didn't land in Tel Aviv or Damascus or Baghdad - they landed
> at 1-2 WTC.
> 
> The best I can tell, everyone responding to this list is doing so on this
> side of the pond. That makes you an American - either by birth or by
> adoption. It's nice to respect our roots but more important to respect the
> life you're living now, the land that you are living it on and the idea
> that, in spite of ALL of those differences, that we didn't do this to
> ourselves. Whoever did this is evil, regardless of religious beliefs and
> location. Get over that.
> 
> Let's get on with fixing the broken pieces of the city we love and helping
> those that need it now.
> 
> Many WWWAC folks are helping. Any WWWAC folks stuck in Boston or north of
> just need call - we will take care of them.
> 
> My best,
> Dan
> 
> 
> Daniel G. Magni
> President/CEO
> BeaconVision Incorporated
> 337 Amherst Street, Suite 5
> Nashua, New Hampshire 03063-1723
> Office   (603) 595.2200
> FAX      (603) 595.2348  Virtual FAX (240) 384.8646
> Cellular (603) 620.1800
> mailto:dan.magni@...
> http://www.beaconvision.com/
> Live free or die!
> 
> 
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: 	Jessica Elkin <mailto:kvixen@...>
> Sent:	Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:57 PM
> To:	Brooklyn Linux Solutions; stas
> Cc:	Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
> Subject:	RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
> 
> I didn't see that as a jab at jews and I'm Jewish. I think we're all really
> upset right now and you're taking this in a direction that is totally
> unnecessary.
> 
> Right now, we're all REALLY scared and angry about what has happened in New
> York City. Let's all try to keep flaming at a minimum.
> 
> ~Jessica
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:49 PM
> > To: stas
> > Cc: Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
> >
> >
> > Really - That's a crock of shit.  Israel has never been on the State
> > Departments List of terrorist nations.  Israel has Arad citizens.  Arabs
> > have demanded all Arab nations to be Jew Free.
> >
> > You've just been waiting to blame this on Jews....
> >
> >
> > On 2001.09.11 18:44:15 -0400 stas wrote:
> > I would put Israel on the same list. They are just as trained to hate the
> > Arabs as the Arabs to hate the Israelis.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> >
> > It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
> > Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
> > with a full military campain until we completely control the
> > these nations.
> >  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> > http://www.brooklynonline.com
> >
> > 1-718-382-5752








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 19:15
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

We live north of Willow Grove air base.

We had a few FA18's go over, and a couple of A-10's, but the A-10's 
were' going the wrong way - west, not east.



At 6:50 PM -0400 09-11-2001, Steve Manes wrote:
>At 04:09 PM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
>>I think they are F-15s.  Twin-tail, bubble canopy, delta wings.  Anyone get
>>a better view?
>
>I saw F16s, F15s and FA18s, some carrying what looked like 
>Sidewinders (I presume) under the wings.
>
>-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
>Steve Manes
>Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Bob Ponce
DATE: Tue 19:17
SUBJ: [wwwac] Downtown Tragedy: The World Trade Center Collapse: An
  Eyewitness Account



>Subject: Downtown Tragedy: The World Trade Center Collapse: An Eyewitness 
>Account
>From: news@...
>
>Silicon Alley Station:
>
>Bob Ponce was in lower Manhattan when terror and tragedy struck the World 
>Trade Center. Click here for his report
>
>http://siliconalley.net/radio/wtcattack.ram








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 19:20
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

I completely agree and I apologize to the list.

Sincerely,
Jessie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel G. Magni <mailto:dan.magni@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:28 PM
> To: Jessica Elkin; Brooklyn Linux Solutions; stas
> Cc: Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
>
>
>
> Enough already.
>
> It seems to me that everyone is forgetting which side of the
> ponds we are on
> now. The planes didn't land in Tel Aviv or Damascus or Baghdad -
> they landed
> at 1-2 WTC.
>
> The best I can tell, everyone responding to this list is doing so on this
> side of the pond. That makes you an American - either by birth or by
> adoption. It's nice to respect our roots but more important to respect the
> life you're living now, the land that you are living it on and the idea
> that, in spite of ALL of those differences, that we didn't do this to
> ourselves. Whoever did this is evil, regardless of religious beliefs and
> location. Get over that.
>
> Let's get on with fixing the broken pieces of the city we love and helping
> those that need it now.
>
> Many WWWAC folks are helping. Any WWWAC folks stuck in Boston or north of
> just need call - we will take care of them.
>
> My best,
> Dan
>
>
> Daniel G. Magni
> President/CEO
> BeaconVision Incorporated
> 337 Amherst Street, Suite 5
> Nashua, New Hampshire 03063-1723
> Office   (603) 595.2200
> FAX      (603) 595.2348  Virtual FAX (240) 384.8646
> Cellular (603) 620.1800
> mailto:dan.magni@...
> http://www.beaconvision.com/
> Live free or die!
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: 	Jessica Elkin <mailto:kvixen@...>
> Sent:	Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:57 PM
> To:	Brooklyn Linux Solutions; stas
> Cc:	Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
> Subject:	RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
>
> I didn't see that as a jab at jews and I'm Jewish. I think we're
> all really
> upset right now and you're taking this in a direction that is totally
> unnecessary.
>
> Right now, we're all REALLY scared and angry about what has
> happened in New
> York City. Let's all try to keep flaming at a minimum.
>
> ~Jessica
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:49 PM
> > To: stas
> > Cc: Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
> > Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
> >
> >
> > Really - That's a crock of shit.  Israel has never been on the State
> > Departments List of terrorist nations.  Israel has Arad citizens.  Arabs
> > have demanded all Arab nations to be Jew Free.
> >
> > You've just been waiting to blame this on Jews....
> >
> >
> > On 2001.09.11 18:44:15 -0400 stas wrote:
> > I would put Israel on the same list. They are just as trained
> to hate the
> > Arabs as the Arabs to hate the Israelis.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
> >
> > It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
> > Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
> > with a full military campain until we completely control the
> > these nations.
> >  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brooklyn Linux Solutions
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> > http://www.brooklynonline.com
> >
> > 1-718-382-5752








FROM: stas
DATE: Tue 19:24
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

Err... I'm a Russian Jew, so no, it wasn't an anti-Jewish sentiment.=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>


Really - That's a crock of shit.  Israel has never been on the State
Departments List of terrorist nations.  Israel has Arad citizens.  Arabs
have demanded all Arab nations to be Jew Free.

You've just been waiting to blame this on Jews....








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 19:21
SUBJ: [wwwac] Military Aircraft ID

Since you are now seeing the kinds of aircraft that usually don't fly 
over the NY area with any regularity, here's a link to a site that 
can help you ID what you see.

http://www.militaryid.com/


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin T. Focazio
Direct OFF-LIST Replies to: Martin@...
Martin T. Focazio LLC.
Executive Education, Management Consulting, Strategic Planning
610.847.1118 voice
mtfocazio AOL IM
focazio Yahoo Messenger








FROM: KNOdom
DATE: Tue 19:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] Act sanely and locally

I am going down the street to my local, and very friendly, bodega
tonight and ask the very friendly and personable owner (who happens to
be Middle Eastern and has had his windows broken several times recently)
if he needs any companionship tonight. This may be Albany, but it is
Albany.








FROM: Nathaniel R. Merriam
DATE: Tue 19:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?


Jeez -- I hope they were just moving the A10s out of the way to get all
their space for other equipment. I would hate to think we're going to need
air-ground attack capabilities. We have an A10 squadron down here and
thankfully they are quiet (though the F16s are flying around). It still
doesn't seem real. This is a conversation we shouldn't be having...

>
> We live north of Willow Grove air base.
>
> We had a few FA18's go over, and a couple of A-10's, but the A-10's
> were' going the wrong way - west, not east.








FROM: Kathy Forer
DATE: Tue 17:37
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

At 2:04 PM -0400 9/11/01, Eileen 'Turtle' Parzek wrote:
>I thought  "its not like they're going anywhere... I'll do it next 
>time I'm here".  So unimaginable that they are gone... unreal

The area looks like the Bamiyan cliffs without the Buddhas.








FROM: Husani S. Oakley
DATE: Tue 19:32
SUBJ: [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed

i was down on greenwich, saw this collapse.  not an experience i care
to repeat.


>/h

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley, Scott <mailto:SShirley@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:48 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: RE: [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed


47, but it looked a lot wider, stockier.  Fortunately, it looks like
everyone had been evacuated.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Frieser <mailto:mark@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:37 PM
> To: Williams, John; wwwac@...
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed
>
>
> Its about 45 stories
>
>
> On 11-09-2001 17:21, "Williams, John" <jwilliams@...> wrote:
>
> > how does this building compare in size with the others?
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:    Martin T. Focazio [SMTP:wwwac@...
> >> Sent:    Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:25 PM
> >> To:    wwwac@...
> >> Subject:    [wwwac] WTC 7 Just collapsed
> >>
> >> Huge building...just fell.








FROM: Nathaniel R. Merriam
DATE: Tue 19:34
SUBJ: [wwwac] high-res image of the WTC


Does anyone have a high resolution image of the WTC? I just thought it would
be nice to print out something large for putting up at the hospital, but all
I can find are web-res graphics. Don't need a professional $50 corbis image,
just something I can can print at 12x19...

thanks
nathaniel








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 19:34
SUBJ: [wwwac] Act sanely and locally

Good for you, and I hope he isn't treated too badly.  Just because he's
Arabian doesn't mean people should make him a scapegoat.


On 11-09-2001 19:23, "KNOdom" <knodom@...> wrote:

> I am going down the street to my local, and very friendly, bodega
> tonight and ask the very friendly and personable owner (who happens to
> be Middle Eastern and has had his windows broken several times recently)
> if he needs any companionship tonight. This may be Albany, but it is
> Albany.








FROM: Andrew Gideon
DATE: Tue 23:34
SUBJ: [wwwac] Why didn't anyone know?

In article <GAELJDDKGNNBLCOAJKFGAEPBDIAA.carole@...>,
	carole@... ("carole guevin") writes:

> c) there seem to have been one reported *hijack* situation from one of the 2
> airplanes - seems pilots have those hidden buttons to alert - and again - it
> was at the very last minute.

Every commercial aircraft (and much of the general aviation fleet) carries
a transponder.  This responds back to each RADAR "query" with information
that includes a 4 digit code.  Normally, unique codes are assigned for
ID purposes (pilots: I'm not going to try to explain 1200 just now).  

However, there are special codes, one of which indicates a hijacking.
Still, what good would it do?  Some of us on rec.aviation.student
used to joke about one of those codes being "please just shoot me
down".  Perhaps we really need one of these?

No, I doubt that the pilots ever knew what was planned, so I doubt
that even that would have made a difference.

	- Andrew








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 19:35
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

Me too, let's all try to focus on what's happened and how to improve the
situation.


On 11-09-2001 19:20, "Jessica Elkin" <kvixen@...> wrote:

> I completely agree and I apologize to the list.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Jessie
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Daniel G. Magni <mailto:dan.magni@...>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:28 PM
>> To: Jessica Elkin; Brooklyn Linux Solutions; stas
>> Cc: Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
>> Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Enough already.
>> 
>> It seems to me that everyone is forgetting which side of the
>> ponds we are on
>> now. The planes didn't land in Tel Aviv or Damascus or Baghdad -
>> they landed
>> at 1-2 WTC.
>> 
>> The best I can tell, everyone responding to this list is doing so on this
>> side of the pond. That makes you an American - either by birth or by
>> adoption. It's nice to respect our roots but more important to respect the
>> life you're living now, the land that you are living it on and the idea
>> that, in spite of ALL of those differences, that we didn't do this to
>> ourselves. Whoever did this is evil, regardless of religious beliefs and
>> location. Get over that.
>> 
>> Let's get on with fixing the broken pieces of the city we love and helping
>> those that need it now.
>> 
>> Many WWWAC folks are helping. Any WWWAC folks stuck in Boston or north of
>> just need call - we will take care of them.
>> 
>> My best,
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> Daniel G. Magni
>> President/CEO
>> BeaconVision Incorporated
>> 337 Amherst Street, Suite 5
>> Nashua, New Hampshire 03063-1723
>> Office   (603) 595.2200
>> FAX      (603) 595.2348  Virtual FAX (240) 384.8646
>> Cellular (603) 620.1800
>> mailto:dan.magni@...
>> http://www.beaconvision.com/
>> Live free or die!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  -----Original Message-----
>> From:     Jessica Elkin <mailto:kvixen@...>
>> Sent:    Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:57 PM
>> To:    Brooklyn Linux Solutions; stas
>> Cc:    Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
>> Subject:    RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
>> 
>> I didn't see that as a jab at jews and I'm Jewish. I think we're
>> all really
>> upset right now and you're taking this in a direction that is totally
>> unnecessary.
>> 
>> Right now, we're all REALLY scared and angry about what has
>> happened in New
>> York City. Let's all try to keep flaming at a minimum.
>> 
>> ~Jessica
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:49 PM
>>> To: stas
>>> Cc: Wwwac @ Lists . Wwwac . Org
>>> Subject: RE: [wwwac] kabul on fire
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Really - That's a crock of shit.  Israel has never been on the State
>>> Departments List of terrorist nations.  Israel has Arad citizens.  Arabs
>>> have demanded all Arab nations to be Jew Free.
>>> 
>>> You've just been waiting to blame this on Jews....
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2001.09.11 18:44:15 -0400 stas wrote:
>>> I would put Israel on the same list. They are just as trained
>> to hate the
>>> Arabs as the Arabs to hate the Israelis.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>
>>> 
>>> It doesn't matter.  All these nations have been proven supporters of
>>> Terrorism, and they are all, IMO, at war with us and should be occupied,
>>> with a full military campain until we completely control the
>>> these nations.
>>>  Syria and Iran should also be on the list.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Brooklyn Linux Solutions
>>> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>>> http://www.brooklynonline.com
>>> 
>>> 1-718-382-5752








FROM: Steve Manes
DATE: Tue 19:39
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

At 04:37 PM 9/11/01 -0600, Tim wrote:
>Is that going to incite more terrorist activity - almost certainly.
>
>That's the problem with terrorism - you can't stop it with a war, no matter
>how badly you want to.  All you'll do is KILL MORE INNOCENT PEOPLE, and incite
>others to do so as well.  Fucking great.

Hate to say it because I'd like to see biblical payback for this as much as 
anyone.  But that's exactly what the terrorists want us to do.  They're not 
looking for the US to back off on its middle east policy nor to cease its 
support for Israel.  That's naive.  They want us to retaliate as brutally 
and as viciously as we can against the Arab world, the more civilian the 
body count, the better.  The more misery we bring to the average Arab 
person, the better.  What they want us to do is what they can't do: 
polarize the Arab world, driving middle of the roaders into their camp.

Arab fanatics use religion as a wedge to drive maniacs to this kind of 
action.  We should use capitalism for the same purpose.  Post a $100 
million bounty on the heads of those responsible, and lesser but equally 
enticing amounts on those of their minions, collectable in the currency of 
your choice and totally anonymous.  Provide the mercs with all the 
logistical support they need, just like Libya does with its 
lackeys.  Bribe, blackmail, break some bones, do whatever's necessary to 
get the intelligence needed.  Keep picking them off, one/two at a time 
until they don't know who to trust.

-----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-------=o&>o-------
Steve Manes
Brooklyn, N'Yawk








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 19:37
SUBJ: [wwwac] Afghanistan??

That's so odd, I heard that just before going out and seeing the first
blast.


On 11-09-2001 18:43, "Ari" <bongwater@...> wrote:

> 
> yes, i forgot that an assasination attempt was made on the leader of the
> northern alliance, the taliban's main opposition this morning.
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "You're sharpening stones, walking on coals to improve your business acumen."
> 
> -- R.E.M. (Exhuming McCarthy)
> 
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Shirley, Scott wrote:
> 
>> It's unclear where the explosions are coming from.  We may have done it, but
>> it could also be a part of the ongoing civil war.
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Amita Guha <mailto:bfift2girl@...>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:04 PM
>>> To: wwwac@...
>>> Subject: [wwwac] Afghanistan??
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Turn on CNN...Kabul is being bombed....WTF???








FROM: Nathaniel R. Merriam
DATE: Tue 19:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] Act sanely and locally


And from my experience, people who come all the way to the US are usually
escaping exatly the kind of idiots who pull of these attacks. To lump them
all together is as insulting as it is foolish...

>
> Good for you, and I hope he isn't treated too badly.  Just because he's
> Arabian doesn't mean people should make him a scapegoat.








FROM: Stephen Gilliard
DATE: Tue 16:39
SUBJ: [wwwac] Military Aircraft ID

Since you are now seeing the kinds of aircraft that
usually don't fly over the NY area with any
regularity, here's a link to a site that can help you
ID what you see.


http://www.militaryid.com/

http://www.fas.org also has a comprehensive list of
the fighters and ships on the way to the New York area

The two carriers on their way carry up to 85 aircraft
each. I would expect to see fighters and helicopters
over the area by tomorrow. 

I've been hearing and seeing fighters all day, and
hearing helicopters. I'm waiting for the military
convoys which should be coming to help with any rescue efforts

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: carole guevin
DATE: Tue 19:41
SUBJ: [wwwac] New call for blood donations across the US nation everywhere + hotline # for victims/survivors

The HHS has issued a plea for blood donations everywhere across the US -
1-800-933-BLOOD

Also this the HOTLINE # for victims and survivors: 1-800-333-0075.

carole








FROM: Jessica Elkin
DATE: Tue 19:47
SUBJ: [wwwac] what do we do now?

Like the rest of you, I'm still in a state of shock right now, but one
question lingers:

What does all of this mean for us in the days to come?

For example, I work above 14th Street. Should I assume that I'm expected to
show up tomorrow morning? I obviously have not been able to reach anyone at
the office yet. I know that Guiliani said that if you don't HAVE to be in
the city tomorrow, please stay home, but I'm curious what everyone else is
planning on doing.

~Jessie








FROM: Nathaniel R. Merriam
DATE: Tue 19:46
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire


FYI afghanistan update/background from http://www.stratfor.com/:

U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said Sept. 11 that there is "no
way" that the United States was involved in bombings reported in Afghanistan
's capital Kabul. U.S. President George W. Bush also arrived back at the
White House Sept. 11 after shuttling during the day between air force bases
in Louisiana and Nebraska. 2257 GMT, 091101

Explosions around Kabul do not appear to be the result of U.S. action,
despite speculation that that Saudi militant Osama bin Laden, who shelters
in Afghanistan, was behind today's terrorist strikes in New York and
Washington. Rather, Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia Sept. 12 launched a
massive attack against opposition Northern Alliance forces north of the
city. The attack follows allegations that Northern Alliance commander Ahmad
Shah Masood died of injuries he received in an assassination attempt Sept.
10. Taliban and Northern Alliance forces have been winding up the summer
fighting season over the past few weeks with extensive clashes north of
Kabul, and in the northern province of Takhar. 2240 GMT, 091101








FROM: carole guevin
DATE: Tue 19:53
SUBJ: [wwwac] new url to find out NYC safe list of people

where people can post information about whether they're safe
or about who they've spoken to that they know to be safe.

http://safe.millennium.berkeley.edu/

the earlier one that was published is:

http://www.shunn.net/okay/

carole








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 20:00
SUBJ: [wwwac] what do we do now?

I'm changing careers. As far as terrorism, quite frankly, it worked 
on me. I just cancelled a trip to Cyprus, and I'm thinking about 
cancelling a trip to Atlanta next week. I just can't consider the 
idea of my life ending as "collateral damage" in some lunatics war of 
ideas.



At 7:47 PM -0400 09-11-2001, Jessica Elkin wrote:
>Like the rest of you, I'm still in a state of shock right now, but one
>question lingers:
>
>What does all of this mean for us in the days to come?
>
>For example, I work above 14th Street. Should I assume that I'm expected to
>show up tomorrow morning? I obviously have not been able to reach anyone at
>the office yet. I know that Guiliani said that if you don't HAVE to be in
>the city tomorrow, please stay home, but I'm curious what everyone else is
>planning on doing.
>
>~Jessie








FROM: Rebecca Donnison
DATE: Wed 10:04
SUBJ: [wwwac] Our Prayers Are With You

I am still in shock.

In Sydney, Australia ...as our city wakes up to the news... the feeling this
morning is one of dismay and our hearts go out to the all of you.

Take care of yourselves

Rebecca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Wilson" <jeremy@...>
To: <janet.driscoll@...>; <wwwac@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:11 AM
Subject: RE: [wwwac] Our Prayers Are With You


> Likewise from Seattle, WA.  No words can ever do justice to this
> unfolding situation.
>
> Jeremy Wilson
> Wilson Design Technologies
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janet Driscoll <mailto:janet.driscoll@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:42 AM
> To: wwwac@...
> Subject: [wwwac] Our Prayers Are With You
>
> All,
> I subscribe to this list from Denver, CO and we're watching everything
> unfold here. Our prayers are with you. If there's anything we can do to
> help, let me know.
> Janet








FROM: Tim
DATE: Tue 18:06
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

At 07:39 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>At 04:37 PM 9/11/01 -0600, Tim wrote:
>>Is that going to incite more terrorist activity - almost certainly.
>>
>>That's the problem with terrorism - you can't stop it with a war, no matter
>>how badly you want to.  All you'll do is KILL MORE INNOCENT PEOPLE, and 
>>incite
>>others to do so as well.  Fucking great.
>
>Hate to say it because I'd like to see biblical payback for this as much 
>as anyone.  But that's exactly what the terrorists want us to do.  They're 
>not looking for the US to back off on its middle east policy nor to cease 
>its support for Israel.  That's naive.  They want us to retaliate as 
>brutally and as viciously as we can against the Arab world, the more 
>civilian the body count, the better.  The more misery we bring to the 
>average Arab person, the better.  What they want us to do is what they 
>can't do: polarize the Arab world, driving middle of the roaders into 
>their camp.

Steve, I couldn't agree more.  The reasonable citizens on both sides of this
thing are being played.  That's why it drives me nuts to see people calling 
for blood already.

-THL








FROM: Scott Bowling
DATE: Tue 20:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:22:49 -0500
"Shirley, Scott" <SShirley@...> wrote:
> ...
> As to the collapses:
> http://slate.msn.com/Code/explainer/explainer.asp?Show=9/11/2001&idMessage=8265
> 
Another article with some interesting bits of information:

   http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/11/collapse_background/index.html

Scott








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
DATE: Tue 20:13
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire


On 2001.09.11 19:24:16 -0400 stas wrote:
<<Err... I'm a Russian Jew,>>

Err - I doesn't matter.

It was still comparing Israel to a state which sponsors the death of
100,000
in blowing up the WTC.


ruben
______________

 so no, it wasn't an anti-Jewish sentiment. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brooklyn Linux Solutions <mailto:ruben@...>


Really - That's a crock of shit.  Israel has never been on the State
Departments List of terrorist nations.  Israel has Arad citizens.  Arabs
have demanded all Arab nations to be Jew Free.

You've just been waiting to blame this on Jews....


-- 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: Bob Frankel
DATE: Tue 14:57
SUBJ: [wwwac] violence & community

As a WWWAC Board veteran who has (and not alone) sometimes wondered about
his seemingly endless hours of unpaid effort, today's terrible events has
had one bright spot.  The outpouring of support, exchange of information,
volunteering of futons to spare bedrooms, etc., has been unrestrained and
reassuring.  Without any specific authority, I think I can say we are all
grateful.

Separately, my own view sent privately this morning:

"Though not an original thought, it does reinforce the idea that as a
species
we are better at accumulating knowledge than sense.  Given no perceived
positive outlet, people have always invented justifications for negative
ones.  Scale and technology just allow greater efficiency today.  Sad
thought."

Bob Frankel








FROM: Virginia Pruitt
DATE: Tue 20:17
SUBJ: [wwwac] personal experience with Holy Smoke

I am a teacher in the Towers area, two blocks away.  Really scary to say
the least.

Just want to say that I had three of my students with me in Brooklyn
Heights, one of whom didn't know (and may not yet know) if his mother was
alive. We had evacuated the school and walked over the Bridge. Cadmen
Heights Car Service gave me a hard time about paying for sending the
students home.  I offered a check since I live around the corner; they
wouldn't take it. I told them we missed death by two blocks and there was a
long line to get cash.  Wouldn't budge.  The driver seemed embarrassed by
the manager, however.  They overcharged me and insisted on cash.

The Deli on the corner was very nice, though.  We were covered in soot and
could hardly be considered faking.

Anyone in the area can consider this in future transactions.

Va








FROM: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
DATE: Tue 20:18
SUBJ: [wwwac] WTC Pictures


I did a walk around Manhattan and over the Brooklyn Bridge.  See more
photo's from my picture book at

http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/wtc/


Ruben

-- 
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
http://www.brooklynonline.com

1-718-382-5752








FROM: Steven Clift
DATE: Tue 19:23
SUBJ: [wwwac] Sept 11 - 1st Person Accounts via E-mail (fwd)


Please forward->

I have created a special moderated e-mail list to collect first person
accounts by those directly impacted by the recent tragedies.  No
discussion or third party statements will be posted.  

To subscribe, send a message to:

     sept11firstperson-subscribe@...

Most of what will be collected will be forwarded from other sources. by
list members. To help build this collection of important human accounts,
send them in to:  sept11firstperson@...

Messages will be on the web at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sept11firstperson/messages

And by Wednesday a second archive should be available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/sept11firstperson@...


Andy Carvin created a general announcement and discussion forum at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sept11info
E-mail subscribe: sept11info-subscribe@...


Steven Clift
http://www.publicus.net








FROM: Joanna Wissinger
DATE: Tue 15:17
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

At 1:50 PM -0400 9/11/01, Silicon Alley Station wrote:
>I have to say the estimated death toll should be at least 100,000. Why? More
>than 80,000 people work in the WTC.

50,000 is the number I've heard. still more than enough.

>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "hens" <hens@...>
>To: "Lynne d Johnson" <ldj00@...>
>Cc: <wwwac@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:02 PM
>Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
>>  First estimate death toll: 10,000
>>
>>  Likely to go up.
>>
>>  Unbelievable


-- 
Joanna Wissinger
c 917 407 6825 im joannawnyc web http://joannaw.com
content strategy/information architecture/competitive intelligence
what is "ubiquitous platforms"? find out at http://www.joannaw.com/ubiq








FROM: Amita Guha
DATE: Tue 20:30
SUBJ: [wwwac] kabul on fire

> Consider:
> Do we really want general war with the muslim world?
> We could kiss nuclear-capable India and Pakistan good-bye in that case.

India's not muslim...it's 85% Hindu or something like that. 








FROM: eidoru design
DATE: Tue 20:47
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

"We will make no distinction between those who perpetrated these acts 
and those who have harbored them."

George Bush, Sept. 11, 2001 8:45 PM

the beginnings of war ... ?
-- 
<insert witty quote here>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+








FROM: mike dizon
DATE: Tue 20:53
SUBJ: [wwwac] we were warned

------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C13B03.CCE6C120
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

According to CNN -- A brittish news organization had reported that Bin =
Laden had sent a telegram warning of the attack on the WTC.

------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C13B03.CCE6C120--








FROM: Sichon Domrongchai
DATE: Tue 20:59
SUBJ: [wwwac] Nostradamus

Not to be melodramatic, but someone sent me this, and it's quite disturbing
in context...

"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, two brothers torn apart
by chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb.", "The
third big war will begin when the big city is burning."

- Nostradamus, 1654



S I C H O N | D E S I G N
--------------------------------------->
digital media designer
W: 561.218.0063 | M: 561.715.1039
sichon@...
<---------------------------------------








FROM: Martin T. Focazio
DATE: Tue 21:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

War, in the sense of military action, seems inevitable, no? But what 
is the target? The ideas of the attackers? The various states who 
hate Israel (if this was indeed Bin Laden originated)?

When I see pictures of people in Egypt dancing with delight over this 
atrocity, and the Palestinian children firing guns into the air in 
"celebration" of the deaths of what will likely be tens of thousands 
of people, it's hard for me not to want to shoot them myself.

I feel all of the emotions you'd expect - anger, a desire for 
vengeance, and more. I still have a part of me that understands that 
dropping bombs will only incite suicidal fanatics who disregard their 
own lives to do it more.

In the end, I think we'll be dropping bombs and firing missiles at 
the usual suspects for a while.

I can expect the world to be very different starting about now.








FROM: 
DATE: Tue 20:13
SUBJ: [wwwac] director question


It sounds like you have flash on the stage with Director, right?

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Julian Laurent Harker wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> 
> I know this is the last thing anyone wants to think about right now, so 
> sorry for the awful timing, but I have a quick director question...
> I'm working on a project using video, and am having playback problems 
> when making a pc projector.  The top half of the video is normal, and 
> plays at the proper frame rate, while the lower part of the video frame 
> flickers upwards leaving black where the video is not filling its alloted 
> space.
> The video is quicktime with sorenson compression.
> It works fine on a G4, and works fine in the stand alone qt player on a 
> pc.
> My best guess is that it's a memory issue, but I was wondering whether 
> anyone else had any similar experiences.
> Thanks in advance, and sorry for the bad timing.
> I hope everyone is ok.
> Julian








FROM: eidoru design
DATE: Tue 21:29
SUBJ: [wwwac] something to think about ...

--============_-1211864338==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

>X-Sender: eidoru%eidesign.to@...
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:53:09 -0400
>To: eidoru@...
>From: eidoru design <eidoru@...>
>Subject: something to think about ...
>
>from a slashdot posting:
>
>This is still working by Raymond Luxury Yacht (Score:1) Tuesday 
>September 11, @...
>We had it coming... (Score:5, Troll)
>by takochan on Tuesday September 11, @... (#2277494)
>(User #470955 Info)
>They hit tower one of the WTC and *now toppled both over*. And got 
>the pentagon too..
>
>Now, a couple things.. this is bad, this is really bad..
>
>Apparently it was Palestinian terrorists that
>did it (so TV is reporting)..
>
>If it really was Palestinians, as much as I hate to say this.. I 
>sort of understand..
>
>before I start, I am a normal American white guy, am open minded, 
>and think every race in the world has a right to their own safety 
>and piece (including Americans).. I have absolutely nothing to do 
>with the Arab israeli conflict (I am not arab, or Jewish, or 
>anything like that), nor do I know any of either side closely at 
>all..
>
>But I was in Isreal once on business, and I saw what the Israelies 
>do to the Palestinians, and what I saw made me sick to be an 
>American because of how our government supports what the Israelis do 
>to those people..
>
>Basically, the isrealis take palestinian land bit by bit to make 
>settlements for Israelis only, and shoot/run over/kill Palestinians 
>with the guns, helicopters and bullets that we, America give the 
>Israelis.
>
>We dont report these travesties on American news (though you can get 
>it on the BBC, CBC and other foreign outlets, and watch Israelis 
>shoot with machine guns, 12 year old arab kids throwing rocks).
>
>It is worse than south Africa, and I go as far to say, that the 
>Israelis have put the Palestinians in concentration camp like 
>conditions for the last 20 years or so, bulldozing their houses for 
>their land, shooting their kids, controlling their land, their 
>economy and choking them off one by one..
>
>And when other countries like the Africans try to tell the truth 
>(yes, the Israelis are racists..absolutely, they have dual licence 
>plates for Palestine cars, dont let them drive on the same roads as 
>Israelis, and occupy their country).
>
>And we, the United states government, give more money, bombs, guns 
>and weapons to Israel than to any other country in the world in 
>foreign aid.., knowing (and allowing0 the Israelis to shoot, maim 
>and rob more palestians of there property, lives and freedom.
>
>And we have been doing that for 20 years now at least..
>
>What else should we have expected really?
>
>This terrorism really sucks, .. but we should
>also look at what we have been doing too the last 20 years.. and why 
>a people felt so driven to do this to us..
>--
><insert witty quote here>
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


-- 
<insert witty quote here>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
--============_-1211864338==_ma============--








FROM: Timothy Embler
DATE: Tue 18:22
SUBJ: [wwwac] we were warned

This has been confirmed with FOXnews

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: mike dizon <mailto:mdizon_2000@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:53 PM
To: wwwac
Subject: [wwwac] we were warned


According to CNN -- A brittish news organization had reported that Bin
Laden had sent a telegram warning of the attack on the WTC.








FROM: eidoru design
DATE: Tue 21:36
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

>War, in the sense of military action, seems inevitable, no? But what 
>is the target? The ideas of the attackers? The various states who 
>hate Israel (if this was indeed Bin Laden originated)?

perhaps any powers that the US are threatened by ... i've felt that 
the gov'rnment has been ready and ripe for the chance and reason to 
declare war, due to our economic state and (general) position in the 
eyes of the world.

>
>When I see pictures of people in Egypt dancing with delight over 
>this atrocity, and the Palestinian children firing guns into the air 
>in "celebration" of the deaths of what will likely be tens of 
>thousands of people, it's hard for me not to want to shoot them 
>myself.

yes, but the palestinians view us as evil because the US is one that 
supplies the arms to Israel, most likely the same ones used to shoot 
palestinians down in their streets?

>
>I feel all of the emotions you'd expect - anger, a desire for 
>vengeance, and more. I still have a part of me that understands that 
>dropping bombs will only incite suicidal fanatics who disregard 
>their own lives to do it more.

it is not even anger/vengeance i feel, but instead the fear that 
lives will be lost and/or compromised because of another needless war.

>
>In the end, I think we'll be dropping bombs and firing missiles at 
>the usual suspects for a while.
>
>I can expect the world to be very different starting about now.

i agree. we've hit a crucial turning point today.

jana
eidoru design

-- 
<insert witty quote here>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+








FROM: Timothy Embler
DATE: Tue 18:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] Holy Smoke

Last I heard it is only estimating about 10,000.  Only 40,000 ppl work
in the wtc.



-----Original Message-----
From: Joanna Wissinger <mailto:joanna@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:18 PM
To: Silicon Alley Station; hens; Lynne d Johnson
Cc: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke


At 1:50 PM -0400 9/11/01, Silicon Alley Station wrote:
>I have to say the estimated death toll should be at least 100,000. Why?

>More than 80,000 people work in the WTC.

50,000 is the number I've heard. still more than enough.

>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "hens" <hens@...>
>To: "Lynne d Johnson" <ldj00@...>
>Cc: <wwwac@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:02 PM
>Subject: Re: [wwwac] Holy Smoke
>
>
>>  First estimate death toll: 10,000
>>
>>  Likely to go up.
>>
>>  Unbelievable

-- 
Joanna Wissinger
c 917 407 6825 im joannawnyc web http://joannaw.com
content strategy/information architecture/competitive intelligence what
is "ubiquitous platforms"? find out at http://www.joannaw.com/ubiq








FROM: Colin Ferm
DATE: Tue 21:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] Pittsburgh crash--United 747 from Newark

I've flown that flight every time I go home for the holidays and I can say
with certainty that is was not a 747. Usually it's a 757 or 767. Needless to
say, I'm thinking about staying in the city for Christmas. Anyone know a
family that wants to adopt a kid for the holidays?

- Colin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Ezor" <jezor@...>
To: "WWWAC list (E-mail)" <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:28 AM
Subject: [wwwac] Pittsburgh crash--United 747 from Newark


> CBS News is now reporting that the crash outside Pittsburgh was a United
747
> from Newark.  {Jonathan}
>
> -------------------
> Jonathan I. Ezor
> General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
> T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
> e. jezor@...








FROM: Ari
DATE: Tue 21:38
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?


france and britain have supplied israel with arms - in fact, if it wasn't
for the french mirages and british centurian tanks, israel would've never
been able to win the 6-day war in the first place.

yet, no one blew up the eiffel tower in paris or the tower of london
because of it...

the US is hated for many reasons, let's not link it directly to the
"palestinian cause" because they're insignificant - they're just pawns
manipulated by despots.


On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, eidoru design wrote:

> >War, in the sense of military action, seems inevitable, no? But what 
> >is the target? The ideas of the attackers? The various states who 
> >hate Israel (if this was indeed Bin Laden originated)?
> 
> perhaps any powers that the US are threatened by ... i've felt that 
> the gov'rnment has been ready and ripe for the chance and reason to 
> declare war, due to our economic state and (general) position in the 
> eyes of the world.
> 
> >
> >When I see pictures of people in Egypt dancing with delight over 
> >this atrocity, and the Palestinian children firing guns into the air 
> >in "celebration" of the deaths of what will likely be tens of 
> >thousands of people, it's hard for me not to want to shoot them 
> >myself.
> 
> yes, but the palestinians view us as evil because the US is one that 
> supplies the arms to Israel, most likely the same ones used to shoot 
> palestinians down in their streets?
> 
> >
> >I feel all of the emotions you'd expect - anger, a desire for 
> >vengeance, and more. I still have a part of me that understands that 
> >dropping bombs will only incite suicidal fanatics who disregard 
> >their own lives to do it more.
> 
> it is not even anger/vengeance i feel, but instead the fear that 
> lives will be lost and/or compromised because of another needless war.
> 
> >
> >In the end, I think we'll be dropping bombs and firing missiles at 
> >the usual suspects for a while.
> >
> >I can expect the world to be very different starting about now.
> 
> i agree. we've hit a crucial turning point today.
> 
> jana
> eidoru design
> 
> -- 
> <insert witty quote here>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+








FROM: Pame McMahon
DATE: Tue 21:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

>it is not even anger/vengeance i feel, but instead the fear that
>lives will be lost and/or compromised because of another needless war.

We're not talking about vietnam here, which essentially became a needless
war. we're talking about terrorists who attacked and killed thousands of
americans for no reason other than the fact that we're americans. we're
talking about lunatics who need to be stopped. Bombs need to be dropped, and
a clear message that this will not be tolorated needs to be sent. Its only
needless when american's haven't been killed - the palestinian/israliei
conflict is needless, and just plain stupid - retaliating for a full scale,
well planned attack on this country is not needless, its not stupid, and it
needs to be done.

-----Original Message-----
From: eidoru design <mailto:eidoru@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:36 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] war?


>War, in the sense of military action, seems inevitable, no? But what
>is the target? The ideas of the attackers? The various states who
>hate Israel (if this was indeed Bin Laden originated)?

perhaps any powers that the US are threatened by ... i've felt that
the gov'rnment has been ready and ripe for the chance and reason to
declare war, due to our economic state and (general) position in the
eyes of the world.

>
>When I see pictures of people in Egypt dancing with delight over
>this atrocity, and the Palestinian children firing guns into the air
>in "celebration" of the deaths of what will likely be tens of
>thousands of people, it's hard for me not to want to shoot them
>myself.

yes, but the palestinians view us as evil because the US is one that
supplies the arms to Israel, most likely the same ones used to shoot
palestinians down in their streets?

>
>I feel all of the emotions you'd expect - anger, a desire for
>vengeance, and more. I still have a part of me that understands that
>dropping bombs will only incite suicidal fanatics who disregard
>their own lives to do it more.

it is not even anger/vengeance i feel, but instead the fear that
lives will be lost and/or compromised because of another needless war.

>
>In the end, I think we'll be dropping bombs and firing missiles at
>the usual suspects for a while.
>
>I can expect the world to be very different starting about now.

i agree. we've hit a crucial turning point today.

jana
eidoru design

--
<insert witty quote here>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+








FROM: Andrew Gideon
DATE: Wed 01:39
SUBJ: [wwwac] Paying for content: online [Was: Cool banner ad on weather.com]

In article <011e01c13a3a$e15d8040$6501a8c0@...>,
	chrischandler67@... ("Chris Chandler") writes:
> Frank D. Greco wrote:
 
> Sorry Frank, nothing personal! My point was that weather.com
> is providing a service, and paying for it with advertising
> instead of charging you. I wish there were more examples of
> micropayments, or subscription-based content that would
> validate your own expressed preference for paying for
> content online, but there aren't.

There is subscription based content.  I don't know all of
it, of course, but I do pay for access to several sites, 
including:

	wsj.com	
	economist.com
	acm.org
	computer.org
	aopa.org

Admittedly, the final three are examples where the web site
is but part of what I'm buying.  But, in at least two cases, 
it's a very large part.

I actually prefer subscription pricing to pay-per-read, 
BTW. 

In article <20010910211438.72420.qmail@...>, 
    crowdedfire@... (Jonathan Hamel) writes: 

> That's not really what you guys were talking about, but I just have to rant 
> for a moment:  I'm so disappointed in the apparent death of targeted 
> advertising on the web.  The economic reasons are obvious.  But it's so sad 
> that with all the power of this technology, advertisers are back to being all 
> about volume now, the way credit card acquirers send out millions of pieces 
> of direct mail just to get a .05% return rate.   

The reasons that targeted advertising hasn't taken off aren't quite, 
as far as I can tell, really economic.  I think the largest problem
is the privacy issue.  When DoubleClick made a major move in this 
direction, they were majorly spanked.

My involvment in one particular ad targeting system also suggests
another problem: the concentration on measurable results (ie. click-
throughs or purchases).  This excludes concepts like branding, for
which companies do pay in other media.

I know that performance measurement and targeting aren't identical, 
but I believe that they came to be too closely related in the minds
of people making purchasing decisions.

	- Andrew








FROM: Joanna Wissinger
DATE: Tue 20:00
SUBJ: [wwwac] donate blood!

At 2:02 PM -0400 9/11/01, Hendrick Bosse wrote:
>Anyone knows where to give blood exept for the locations mentioned in
>NYT (except Red Cross, because I am European and they refuse my donation
>because of possible Mad Cow Disease......makes you feel great after 5
>years in the US)

I got refused also, too much time spent in the UK.
-- 
Joanna Wissinger
c 917 407 6825 im joannawnyc web http://joannaw.com
content strategy/information architecture/competitive intelligence
what is "ubiquitous platforms"? find out at http://www.joannaw.com/ubiq








FROM: Joanna Wissinger
DATE: Tue 19:58
SUBJ: [wwwac] who's responsible

well ... lots of "all american" types like me (descendent of 
Mayflower travellers and fighters in the American Revolution) have 
dark hair and tan skin and don't look like we're from Nebraska. So 
where are you going to draw the line.


At 1:49 PM -0400 9/11/01, laurie kilmartin wrote:
>But they're always claiming an attack is imminent, aren't they? I think it
>would be much easier for white, blonde blue-eyed McVeigh-looking terrorists
>to hijack *so many* airplanes as opposed to anyone of Middle Eastern origin.
>It's still such an unthinkable attack-  an "All- American" looking terrorist
>might be able to still pass through our lax security.
>
>Laurie


-- 
Joanna Wissinger
c 917 407 6825 im joannawnyc web http://joannaw.com
content strategy/information architecture/competitive intelligence
what is "ubiquitous platforms"? find out at http://www.joannaw.com/ubiq








FROM: Kaori Eda
DATE: Wed 01:41
SUBJ: [wwwac] Hope you are all doing well.

I'm in Tokyo right, now.  Hope you are all doing well.  If I were there, I 
would go and donate blood and futon (and anythig I can).


Kaori Eda

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








FROM: jim muntone
DATE: Tue 18:43
SUBJ: [wwwac] even ads.x10???

Apparently even the folks who have been driving us
crazy with those dreadful camera ads have a heart.

I just got one of their pop-ups and the usual tripe
was replaced with a message:

"We have suspended our service out of sympathy to the
victims and families of this National tragedy. Our
heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to them."

And links to the red cross.

Strange times indeed, 

be safe,

-t

=====
Jim "toner" Muntone
Information Architect
www.sadrhino.com

"I'm afraid of Americans..."
        -David Bowie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Andrew Gideon
DATE: Wed 01:49
SUBJ: [wwwac] Web Hosting

In article <026b01c13a62$33fb0760$2da6fea9@...>,
	daniel@... ("daniel vena") writes:

> for example, there's many hosting companies which highlight your ability to
> have 20 to 50 POP3 boxes on your 100 meg account.  this is ridiculous and
> totally unnecessary.  it's akin, though beyond AOL's 5 million free hours
> (if you use them in the first month) line of bull.

Why is this deceptive?  Because 50 POP accounts are likely to use more
than 100Mb?

Look at it a different way.  Think of it as nearly unlimited POP
accounts, but with limited disk space.  If the space isn't enough, 
buy more.

That's easier than limiting both POP accounts *and* disk space, and
it makes it easier to price for both consumer and vendor (only one
variable with which to deal).  So what you call "deceptive" is actually
a simplification.

I'm sure, if you asked nicely, the provider would configure only
(for example) ten POP accounts for you.

	- Andrew








FROM: Andrew Gideon
DATE: Wed 02:00
SUBJ: [wwwac] planes still in the air?

In article <F247RABPr33UAND8NJW0000caf5@...>,
	xanthusleo@... ("Jonathan Kopp") writes:
> Something about the words "no--fly zone over New York City" makes my blood 
> run cold.

Tell me about it.  I was supposed to be flying tomorrow.
I cancelled the flight.

Actually, I'm not sure whether I'd be *able* to fly.  I don't
know if the shutdown is just commercial traffic, ATC services, 
or what.

But I'm not especially eager to see how a Cessna 172 does in
a dogfight with an F-18 (given the seat I'd have for the
demo).

	- Andrew








FROM: Kathy Forer
DATE: Tue 17:03
SUBJ: [wwwac] Blood in SoHo

I stopped at Lenox Hill Hospital where we were told Type O blood was 
needed immediately but a 4-5 hour wait (or return later) with A and B 
types.

So, if you know you're Type O (is that the universal type?), you're 
probably needed wherever you are.

Kathy








FROM: carole guevin
DATE: Tue 22:03
SUBJ: [wwwac] donate blood!

you can view the latest updates on the what's new page on netdiver.net - for
blood related donations, addresses, and tel as well as other pertinent
information.

carole








FROM: Andrew Gideon
DATE: Wed 02:07
SUBJ: [wwwac] Re: Ease of use

In article <58D78E56A4CFD41189E300508BD89B848866B3@...>,
	MEstok@... (Michael Estok) writes:
> actually i just heard an interview on NPR with a guy who writes about flying
> and security.  he says just about anyone with alittle flight experience
> could fly these planes, once they are in the air, and i would take hardly
> any skill to aim them at a target.

Agreed.  The vast majority of real flight training involves
dealing with emergencies, or with certain more complex tasks
(holding patterns being my current pet project {8^).  

Aiming at a highly visible target in clear weather is no
great feat.  In fact, I've a feeling that they were waiting
for this weather.  It's just too perfect, for both visual
flight and long distance horror video, to be a coincidence.

	- Andrew








FROM: Timothy Embler
DATE: Tue 19:06
SUBJ: [wwwac] Web Hosting

Some companies do not include the space pop3 accts use in the disk space
quota.  

I can think of several that do that.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Gideon <mailto:ag797@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:50 PM
To: wwwac@...
Subject: Re: [wwwac] Web Hosting


In article <026b01c13a62$33fb0760$2da6fea9@...>,
	daniel@... ("daniel vena") writes:

> for example, there's many hosting companies which highlight your 
> ability to have 20 to 50 POP3 boxes on your 100 meg account.  this is 
> ridiculous and totally unnecessary.  it's akin, though beyond AOL's 5 
> million free hours (if you use them in the first month) line of bull.

Why is this deceptive?  Because 50 POP accounts are likely to use more
than 100Mb?

Look at it a different way.  Think of it as nearly unlimited POP
accounts, but with limited disk space.  If the space isn't enough, 
buy more.

That's easier than limiting both POP accounts *and* disk space, and it
makes it easier to price for both consumer and vendor (only one variable
with which to deal).  So what you call "deceptive" is actually a
simplification.

I'm sure, if you asked nicely, the provider would configure only (for
example) ten POP accounts for you.

	- Andrew








FROM: Jeff Wilhelm
DATE: Tue 22:12
SUBJ: [wwwac] Blood in SoHo

I'm here in RI and have been rivited to CNN all day (literally; i woke up at
8:30am and was watching CNN when the first news came in, and am still
watching it now -- the only time i didn't was during my economics class
which was an hour long, and for that i just read news updates on my Visor
through CNN). I plan on giving blood tomorrow (Type O) and I just wanted to
say that my heart goes out to everyone that has been touched by this
horrific act. I am an RA (Resident Assistant) here at URI, and I have a few
residents in my hallway that have relatives in the hospital, and consoling
them has made my day hell -- I can only imagine the hell that you people are
going through; it's magnitudes worse I am sure. So I will pray tonight that
as many people survive as possible, and that justice will be swift and fair.
God bless.

Good night,
Jeff

http://www.jeffwilhelm.com








FROM: mike dizon
DATE: Tue 22:15
SUBJ: [wwwac] volunteers needed?

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C13B0F.3C4DBB80
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Are there any numbers we can call to sign up for areas that need =
volunteers? For many of us, our offices will not be open. I feel that =
the only proper thing to do is offer whatever help we can.

God Bless,
Mike Dizon

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C13B0F.3C4DBB80--








FROM: phillip knowlton
DATE: Tue 19:26
SUBJ: [wwwac] emergency spare room-- SF

ditto...we can offer rooms for the night.
please contact me on cell 415 793 5978

or tomorrow @... craigslist office on 9th avenue


phillip

phillip@...

btw..here's support pages and forums

http://joshua3.craigslist.org/vigil.html

http://forums.craigslist.org/?forumID=35

http://www.craigslist.org/



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Wiener <mailto:jwiener@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:01 PM
> To: Jonathan Ezor
> Cc: WWWAC list (E-mail)
> Subject: [wwwac] emergency spare room-- SF
>
>
>
> If there are any wwwacies stuck in San Francisco because of the plane
> clampdown, please let me know. I can offer a bed for the night.
>
> Jas
> 415.626.9662
>
>
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Jonathan Ezor wrote:
>
> > Again in the "what can we do" department, I'm imagining that
> some WWWACies
> > may be stranded in Manhattan if the crossings remain closed.
> Anyone have
> > some free beds or floor space to house folks?
> >
> > -------------------
> > Jonathan I. Ezor
> > General Counsel, CyberRebate.com, Inc.  <http://www.cyberrebate.com>
> > T. (*NEW DIRECT*) 516-763-5999   f. 516-977-3001
> > e. jezor@...








FROM: carole guevin
DATE: Tue 22:18
SUBJ: [wwwac] volunteers needed?

hi mike - go to the redcross.org site and there will be a pop-up concerning
volunteers.

also those medical personnel willing to help please call:

1-516-656-9254
1-516-656-9252

carole








FROM: Andrew Gideon
DATE: Wed 02:27
SUBJ: [wwwac] donate blood!

A group of us tried to give blood at the Red Cross in Nutley
this afternoon.  They were pretty packed.  They took our names
and numbers, and sent us away.

If they don't call by Thursday at 2:30, we'll hit the Montclair
Red Cross (which takes donations at that time).

BTW, at least one of our crowd knows herself to be O-.  Nobody
asked.

	- Andrew








FROM: carole guevin
DATE: Tue 22:29
SUBJ: [wwwac] update on tel communications and internet access in NYC

anybody have any idea of the status of telephone communications and internet
access presently in Manhattan?  are things still as hectic as this early am
+ pm or have they improved?

carole








FROM: Joanna Wissinger
DATE: Tue 19:16
SUBJ: [wwwac] Fwd: CNN.com, MSNBC.com, AP radio, NPR

>Reply-To: "Amy Gahran" <amy@...>
>From: "Amy Gahran" <amy@...>
>To: online-writing@...
>Subject: CNN.com, MSNBC.com, AP radio, NPR
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:00:34 -0600
>X-Priority: 3
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:leave-online-writing-596887N@...>
>
>Cnn.com has stripped everything not related to the terrorist attacks from
>its home page -- just text and one still image, and a logo. By paring down
>the bandwidth, more people can access the site. They've probably also bought
>a ton of additional servers online, too. I was just able to hit the CNN home
>page for the first time today, but I haven't been able to get past it to the
>stories.
>
>MSNBC.com has adopted a similar strategy, and I can get to the stories
>there.
>
>AP radio has live coverage over the Net:
>http://www.wtop2.com/fnr_listenlive.shtm
>
>You can also get NPR over the Net: http://www.npr.org/

the online writing list has some useful links.
-- 
Joanna Wissinger
c 917 407 6825 im joannawnyc web http://joannaw.com
content strategy/information architecture/competitive intelligence
what is "ubiquitous platforms"? find out at http://www.joannaw.com/ubiq








FROM: Rebecca Donnison
DATE: Wed 12:56
SUBJ: [wwwac] update on tel communications and internet access in NYC

I just got through to the answering machine of a friend who lives on the
Lower East Side...

----- Original Message -----
From: "carole guevin" <carole@...>
To: "WWWAC list" <wwwac@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 12:29 PM
Subject: [wwwac] update on tel communications and internet access in NYC


> anybody have any idea of the status of telephone communications and
internet
> access presently in Manhattan?  are things still as hectic as this early
am
> + pm or have they improved?
>
> carole








FROM: Julian Laurent Harker
DATE: Tue 22:56
SUBJ: [wwwac] director question

yes,  i do... do you think that's part of the problem?  If so, what to 
do?
Julian

----- Original Message -----
From: <grimmwerks@...>
Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:13 pm
Subject: Re: [wwwac] director question

> 
> It sounds like you have flash on the stage with Director, right?
> 
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Julian Laurent Harker wrote:
> 
> > Hi Folks,
> > 
> > I know this is the last thing anyone wants to think about right 
> now, so 
> > sorry for the awful timing, but I have a quick director question...
> > I'm working on a project using video, and am having playback 
> problems 
> > when making a pc projector.  The top half of the video is normal, 
> and 
> > plays at the proper frame rate, while the lower part of the video 
> frame 
> > flickers upwards leaving black where the video is not filling its 
> alloted 
> > space.
> > The video is quicktime with sorenson compression.
> > It works fine on a G4, and works fine in the stand alone qt 
> player on a 
> > pc.
> > My best guess is that it's a memory issue, but I was wondering 
> whether 
> > anyone else had any similar experiences.
> > Thanks in advance, and sorry for the bad timing.
> > I hope everyone is ok.
> > Julian








FROM: Tim
DATE: Tue 20:52
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

Except that since we're ostensibly a democracy, the American people *are* 
ostensibly the government.  The same government that is responsible for an 
awful lot death, directly and indirectly, around the world.

So let's go bomb so people somewhere who can't vote and have more or less zero
say in what their government does/pays for.

Also, do you really think some bombing campaign, or even a land war, has any
chance of deterring terrorism?  It's more of an incitement.  We're not talking
about someone invading the country with an army made up of the husbands and
sons of some foreign democracy.

Even better, what if they were *domestic* terrorists.  I guess we should just
bomb ourselves.

I can understand the outrage, but you "rah-rah war!" types really need to 
get your heads on straight and think with your minds, not your hearts.

-THL

At 09:49 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> >it is not even anger/vengeance i feel, but instead the fear that
> >lives will be lost and/or compromised because of another needless war.
>
>We're not talking about vietnam here, which essentially became a needless
>war. we're talking about terrorists who attacked and killed thousands of
>americans for no reason other than the fact that we're americans. we're
>talking about lunatics who need to be stopped. Bombs need to be dropped, and
>a clear message that this will not be tolorated needs to be sent. Its only
>needless when american's haven't been killed - the palestinian/israliei
>conflict is needless, and just plain stupid - retaliating for a full scale,
>well planned attack on this country is not needless, its not stupid, and it
>needs to be done.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: eidoru design <mailto:eidoru@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:36 PM
>To: wwwac@...
>Subject: Re: [wwwac] war?
>
>
> >War, in the sense of military action, seems inevitable, no? But what
> >is the target? The ideas of the attackers? The various states who
> >hate Israel (if this was indeed Bin Laden originated)?
>
>perhaps any powers that the US are threatened by ... i've felt that
>the gov'rnment has been ready and ripe for the chance and reason to
>declare war, due to our economic state and (general) position in the
>eyes of the world.
>
> >
> >When I see pictures of people in Egypt dancing with delight over
> >this atrocity, and the Palestinian children firing guns into the air
> >in "celebration" of the deaths of what will likely be tens of
> >thousands of people, it's hard for me not to want to shoot them
> >myself.
>
>yes, but the palestinians view us as evil because the US is one that
>supplies the arms to Israel, most likely the same ones used to shoot
>palestinians down in their streets?
>
> >
> >I feel all of the emotions you'd expect - anger, a desire for
> >vengeance, and more. I still have a part of me that understands that
> >dropping bombs will only incite suicidal fanatics who disregard
> >their own lives to do it more.
>
>it is not even anger/vengeance i feel, but instead the fear that
>lives will be lost and/or compromised because of another needless war.
>
> >
> >In the end, I think we'll be dropping bombs and firing missiles at
> >the usual suspects for a while.
> >
> >I can expect the world to be very different starting about now.
>
>i agree. we've hit a crucial turning point today.
>
>jana
>eidoru design
>
>--
><insert witty quote here>
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+








FROM: Kim B. Foglia
DATE: Tue 22:58
SUBJ: [wwwac] explosives under GW bridge

CBS just reported that explosives were fund under GW Bridge and 
people were arrested.


Kim B. Foglia
Chief Creative Officer
Galt Corporation
http://www.galtcorporation.com
631.756.0200 x204 voice
631.756.0789 fax








FROM: Scott Wickham
DATE: Tue 20:01
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

I don't want to deter terrorism. I want payback.

And yes killing terroist and there support system
will deter terrorism.




=====
Scott Wickham

74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt 
Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com    
for Sale by owner

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
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FROM: 
DATE: Tue 22:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] director question


both qt and flash are direct to card so they fight against each other. Is
the flash interactive at all, or just a graphic?

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Julian Laurent Harker wrote:

> yes,  i do... do you think that's part of the problem?  If so, what to 
> do?
> Julian
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <grimmwerks@...>
> Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:13 pm
> Subject: Re: [wwwac] director question
> 
> > 
> > It sounds like you have flash on the stage with Director, right?
> > 
> > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Julian Laurent Harker wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi Folks,
> > > 
> > > I know this is the last thing anyone wants to think about right 
> > now, so 
> > > sorry for the awful timing, but I have a quick director question...
> > > I'm working on a project using video, and am having playback 
> > problems 
> > > when making a pc projector.  The top half of the video is normal, 
> > and 
> > > plays at the proper frame rate, while the lower part of the video 
> > frame 
> > > flickers upwards leaving black where the video is not filling its 
> > alloted 
> > > space.
> > > The video is quicktime with sorenson compression.
> > > It works fine on a G4, and works fine in the stand alone qt 
> > player on a 
> > > pc.
> > > My best guess is that it's a memory issue, but I was wondering 
> > whether 
> > > anyone else had any similar experiences.
> > > Thanks in advance, and sorry for the bad timing.
> > > I hope everyone is ok.
> > > Julian








FROM: Silicon Alley Station
DATE: Tue 23:05
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

If you don't think retaliatory bombing has a dampening effect, ask Kadafy.

dolly Nielsen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <wwwac@...>
To: <wwwac@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:52 PM
Subject: RE: [wwwac] war?


> Except that since we're ostensibly a democracy, the American people *are*
> ostensibly the government.  The same government that is responsible for an
> awful lot death, directly and indirectly, around the world.
>
> So let's go bomb so people somewhere who can't vote and have more or less
zero
> say in what their government does/pays for.
>
> Also, do you really think some bombing campaign, or even a land war, has
any
> chance of deterring terrorism?  It's more of an incitement.  We're not
talking
> about someone invading the country with an army made up of the husbands
and
> sons of some foreign democracy.
>
> Even better, what if they were *domestic* terrorists.  I guess we should
just
> bomb ourselves.
>
> I can understand the outrage, but you "rah-rah war!" types really need to
> get your heads on straight and think with your minds, not your hearts.
>
> -THL
>
> At 09:49 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> > >it is not even anger/vengeance i feel, but instead the fear that
> > >lives will be lost and/or compromised because of another needless war.
> >
> >We're not talking about vietnam here, which essentially became a needless
> >war. we're talking about terrorists who attacked and killed thousands of
> >americans for no reason other than the fact that we're americans. we're
> >talking about lunatics who need to be stopped. Bombs need to be dropped,
and
> >a clear message that this will not be tolorated needs to be sent. Its
only
> >needless when american's haven't been killed - the palestinian/israliei
> >conflict is needless, and just plain stupid - retaliating for a full
scale,
> >well planned attack on this country is not needless, its not stupid, and
it
> >needs to be done.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: eidoru design <mailto:eidoru@...>
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:36 PM
> >To: wwwac@...
> >Subject: Re: [wwwac] war?
> >
> >
> > >War, in the sense of military action, seems inevitable, no? But what
> > >is the target? The ideas of the attackers? The various states who
> > >hate Israel (if this was indeed Bin Laden originated)?
> >
> >perhaps any powers that the US are threatened by ... i've felt that
> >the gov'rnment has been ready and ripe for the chance and reason to
> >declare war, due to our economic state and (general) position in the
> >eyes of the world.
> >
> > >
> > >When I see pictures of people in Egypt dancing with delight over
> > >this atrocity, and the Palestinian children firing guns into the air
> > >in "celebration" of the deaths of what will likely be tens of
> > >thousands of people, it's hard for me not to want to shoot them
> > >myself.
> >
> >yes, but the palestinians view us as evil because the US is one that
> >supplies the arms to Israel, most likely the same ones used to shoot
> >palestinians down in their streets?
> >
> > >
> > >I feel all of the emotions you'd expect - anger, a desire for
> > >vengeance, and more. I still have a part of me that understands that
> > >dropping bombs will only incite suicidal fanatics who disregard
> > >their own lives to do it more.
> >
> >it is not even anger/vengeance i feel, but instead the fear that
> >lives will be lost and/or compromised because of another needless war.
> >
> > >
> > >In the end, I think we'll be dropping bombs and firing missiles at
> > >the usual suspects for a while.
> > >
> > >I can expect the world to be very different starting about now.
> >
> >i agree. we've hit a crucial turning point today.
> >
> >jana
> >eidoru design
> >
> >--
> ><insert witty quote here>
> >+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+








FROM: Tim
DATE: Tue 21:30
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

1) You could at least spell his name right...

2) Obviously not.  Bombing Libya didn't stop this from happening.  Maybe
such an action would rob these bastards of some financing, but you're not
going to kill them all, or destroy all their resources, or stop them at
all.  Meanwhile, you *will* be killing citizens of foreign nations who are
MORE INNOCENT than you, since they live under a government which refuses their
participation.

You share blame for every act of violence and murder perpetrated by the USA
since you became of age to vote.

Some poor fucker in Afghanistan doesn't get to participate in his state's
policies.  But fuck it, right, we're GOD'S PEOPLE, and we ought to BOMB THE
FUCKERS BACK TO THE STONE AGE.

Do you think whatever nation we bomb the shit out of is going to get any sort
of due process?  You consider due process for yourself a right, but now, fuck
it - let's just find the most likely candidate and proceed with the BUSINESS
OF WAR.

Aren't you a little bit afraid that our fearless leaders are likely to be a
little hasty here?  I mean, who's doing the investigation, and who's doing
the bombing, and how far apart are they?  Not to sound like a conspiracy nut,
but I do not trust the current administration to be honest here.  It's like
when a horrible crime is committed, and the prosecutor feels pressure for
a conviction - corners get cut and people (even *with* due process in many
cases) are unjustly punished.

But, fuck it, right?  We're GOD'S PEOPLE, right?  Right?

-THL

At 11:05 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, Silicon Alley Station wrote:
>If you don't think retaliatory bombing has a dampening effect, ask Kadafy.
>
>dolly Nielsen
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tim" <wwwac@...>
>To: <wwwac@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:52 PM
>Subject: RE: [wwwac] war?
>
>
> > Except that since we're ostensibly a democracy, the American people *are*
> > ostensibly the government.  The same government that is responsible for an
> > awful lot death, directly and indirectly, around the world.
> >
> > So let's go bomb so people somewhere who can't vote and have more or less
>zero
> > say in what their government does/pays for.
> >
> > Also, do you really think some bombing campaign, or even a land war, has
>any
> > chance of deterring terrorism?  It's more of an incitement.  We're not
>talking
> > about someone invading the country with an army made up of the husbands
>and
> > sons of some foreign democracy.
> >
> > Even better, what if they were *domestic* terrorists.  I guess we should
>just
> > bomb ourselves.
> >
> > I can understand the outrage, but you "rah-rah war!" types really need to
> > get your heads on straight and think with your minds, not your hearts.
> >
> > -THL
> >
> > At 09:49 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> > > >it is not even anger/vengeance i feel, but instead the fear that
> > > >lives will be lost and/or compromised because of another needless war.
> > >
> > >We're not talking about vietnam here, which essentially became a needless
> > >war. we're talking about terrorists who attacked and killed thousands of
> > >americans for no reason other than the fact that we're americans. we're
> > >talking about lunatics who need to be stopped. Bombs need to be dropped,
>and
> > >a clear message that this will not be tolorated needs to be sent. Its
>only
> > >needless when american's haven't been killed - the palestinian/israliei
> > >conflict is needless, and just plain stupid - retaliating for a full
>scale,
> > >well planned attack on this country is not needless, its not stupid, and
>it
> > >needs to be done.
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: eidoru design <mailto:eidoru@...>
> > >Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:36 PM
> > >To: wwwac@...
> > >Subject: Re: [wwwac] war?
> > >
> > >
> > > >War, in the sense of military action, seems inevitable, no? But what
> > > >is the target? The ideas of the attackers? The various states who
> > > >hate Israel (if this was indeed Bin Laden originated)?
> > >
> > >perhaps any powers that the US are threatened by ... i've felt that
> > >the gov'rnment has been ready and ripe for the chance and reason to
> > >declare war, due to our economic state and (general) position in the
> > >eyes of the world.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >When I see pictures of people in Egypt dancing with delight over
> > > >this atrocity, and the Palestinian children firing guns into the air
> > > >in "celebration" of the deaths of what will likely be tens of
> > > >thousands of people, it's hard for me not to want to shoot them
> > > >myself.
> > >
> > >yes, but the palestinians view us as evil because the US is one that
> > >supplies the arms to Israel, most likely the same ones used to shoot
> > >palestinians down in their streets?
> > >
> > > >
> > > >I feel all of the emotions you'd expect - anger, a desire for
> > > >vengeance, and more. I still have a part of me that understands that
> > > >dropping bombs will only incite suicidal fanatics who disregard
> > > >their own lives to do it more.
> > >
> > >it is not even anger/vengeance i feel, but instead the fear that
> > >lives will be lost and/or compromised because of another needless war.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >In the end, I think we'll be dropping bombs and firing missiles at
> > > >the usual suspects for a while.
> > > >
> > > >I can expect the world to be very different starting about now.
> > >
> > >i agree. we've hit a crucial turning point today.
> > >
> > >jana
> > >eidoru design
> > >
> > >--
> > ><insert witty quote here>
> > >+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+








FROM: Mark Frieser
DATE: Tue 23:28
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

Yes, that pretty much says it all, doesn't it


On 11-09-2001 20:47, "eidoru design" <eidoru@...> wrote:

> "We will make no distinction between those who perpetrated these acts
> and those who have harbored them."
> 
> George Bush, Sept. 11, 2001 8:45 PM
> 
> the beginnings of war ... ?








FROM: gabriel friedman
DATE: Tue 23:34
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

Not to begin a thread that could get ugly, but am I wrong in thinking that
islamic fundamentalism (assuming that's the group behind this attack) pretty
much began when we overthrew mossadeh, the iranian elected to head iran's
government,  and re-installed the much-hated shah, who was overthrown in
'79, the beginning of the iranian revolution?

I really am asking for opinions from those who know more. But lost (so far)
in these threads is some consideration of *why* this country inspires such
hatred. 

This is in *NO* way to excuse, apologize for, explain away etc... etc...
today's attacks. I'm as sick and horrified as anyone. But any satisfaction
we as a country get from a retaliatory bombing of afghanistan or libya
or...will be short-lived if we fail at least in some small way to try to
understand how other people see us and why.

Again, please don't flame me as an apologist for islamic radicals. But I
disagree that payback will deter terrorism. That's a losing battle,
especially when your enemies believe they'll be received in paradise if they
die in battle. 

I don't claim to have a better answer, and personally I won't feel too bad
to see the taliban bombed, as long as we don't target civilain areas. But
even if we chase Bin Laden from wherever he's hiding, do we really want to
become another israel; armed soldiers in the streets, army checkpoints,
weekly car bombings?

Anyone with insight or better information is welcome to respond.



> From: Scott Wickham <nylscottw@...>
> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:01:54 -0700 (PDT)
> To: Tim <wwwac@...>, wwwac@...
> Subject: RE: [wwwac] war?
> 
> I don't want to deter terrorism. I want payback.
> 
> And yes killing terroist and there support system
> will deter terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> Scott Wickham
> 
> 74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt
> Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com
> for Sale by owner
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://im.yahoo.com








FROM: Scott Wickham
DATE: Tue 20:36
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

actually it says nothing.

We will see it on tv for a few days then conviently
for get about it till its aniversry.

Wish Macain was Pres.



--- Mark Frieser <mark@...> wrote:
> Yes, that pretty much says it all, doesn't it
> 
> 
> On 11-09-2001 20:47, "eidoru design"
> <eidoru@...> wrote:
> 
> > "We will make no distinction between those who
> perpetrated these acts
> > and those who have harbored them."
> > 
> > George Bush, Sept. 11, 2001 8:45 PM
> > 
> > the beginnings of war ... ?


=====
Scott Wickham

74th st,201w apt#14K  Huge 1 Bedroom apt 
Check it out  http://www.webnyc.com    
for Sale by owner

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FROM: Scott Wickham
DATE: Tue 20:47
SUBJ: [wwwac] war?

As I said before innocent will die. Move on.

Two due process is a right for citizens of the USA.

Are you now saying we have to enforce our ideas on
everyone else in the world.

When in Rome do as the Romans.

More innocent (nice idea).

Dead is dead, 

If in your logic, we are our government. Then I have
no problem killing to avenge the deaths of pregnant
women going to work on a tuesday morning.

In fact I might even be chill if they just took out
Pentagon and White house. they are ligtimate military
targets.

I also defend your right (if you are a us citizen) to
spout your stupidly in public.

But if you phyically harm women you bet I have no
problem taking you or anyone else out.

Can I be any clearer on this point.




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